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Government finances don't work the same way as other finances. A normally functioning democracy can basically invent as much money as it needs to (see Covid rel

Government finances don't work the same way as other finances. A normally functioning democracy can basically invent as much money as it needs to (see Covid relief packages). If there's political will to do an LHC++, three ITERs and two ISS's, the money will appear. If there's opposition to the LHC++ and it gets scrapped, that doesn't mean that the funds will be re-allocated. They will just disappear.

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
True, however printed money's not free free, it devalues all money so it's sort of a backdoor tax. Assuming that there is an upper bound on a nation's science budget (and in practice, there is), then the article makes a valid point - particle colliders have diminishing returns as it stands right now, and that money might be better spent on thousands of smaller studies. Forward thinking nations would take this approach, a single discovery in just one of these studies might unlock a huge amount of scientific, commercial or industrial value, and casting the net wide gives the greatest chance of making that discovery.
inglor_cz 4y ago
"A normally functioning democracy can basically invent as much money as it needs to" Sure. For some time period and amount of money, indeed. What happens once this limit is reached and people stop trusting that money? Currency collapses are nasty. Look at Weimar Germany after WWI.
- izacus 4y ago
  LHC costs are basically peanuts in comparison to any kind of spending the western countries do (especially if you compare it to spending on killing machines). Several LHCs, ITERs and ISSes won't bring any of the nations close to Weimar Germany. Aircraft carriers, F-35s, failing infrastructure projects and corruption have a larger chance of doing that.
concordDance 4y ago
I think there's a certain disconnect from the underlying reality here. If you didn't have those things then the people who design, build and operate the thing would be doing something else. Are you sure the other things they'd be doing are less valuable? Also, I'll note that inflation in the UK is at 9%. Printing money is essentially a tax on those with cash holdings, who are mostly poorer. Not to mention the wastage on repricing...
im3w1l 4y ago
A country can print money, but there are other things that are in shorter supply. Namely natural resources and labor.
Aerroon 4y ago
>see Covid relief packages And after this the US has hit levels of inflation that it hasn't seen for 50 years. Before that inflation was that high in WW2. Printing money is not free, neither is tax money.
- musha68k 4y ago
  I didn't check if that's the actual (main?) reason for the inflation we are seeing since before February 2022. But let's suppose it is, there are still some entities who have been earning tons of money during this pandemic so far. Maybe Amazon, Pfizer & co just need to be taxed higher.
maerF0x0 4y ago
> can basically invent as much money as it needs to This is only true of the world's reserve currency (which is currently the USD). In all other cases they basically guarantee the issues stated elsewhere like inflation.

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago

True, however printed money's not free free, it devalues all money so it's sort of a backdoor tax. Assuming that there is an upper bound on a nation's science budget (and in practice, there is), then the article makes a valid point - particle colliders have diminishing returns as it stands right now, and that money might be better spent on thousands of smaller studies. Forward thinking nations would take this approach, a single discovery in just one of these studies might unlock a huge amount of scientific, commercial or industrial value, and casting the net wide gives the greatest chance of making that discovery.

inglor_cz 4y ago

"A normally functioning democracy can basically invent as much money as it needs to" Sure. For some time period and amount of money, indeed. What happens once this limit is reached and people stop trusting that money? Currency collapses are nasty. Look at Weimar Germany after WWI.

izacus 4y ago
LHC costs are basically peanuts in comparison to any kind of spending the western countries do (especially if you compare it to spending on killing machines). Several LHCs, ITERs and ISSes won't bring any of the nations close to Weimar Germany. Aircraft carriers, F-35s, failing infrastructure projects and corruption have a larger chance of doing that.

concordDance 4y ago

I think there's a certain disconnect from the underlying reality here. If you didn't have those things then the people who design, build and operate the thing would be doing something else. Are you sure the other things they'd be doing are less valuable? Also, I'll note that inflation in the UK is at 9%. Printing money is essentially a tax on those with cash holdings, who are mostly poorer. Not to mention the wastage on repricing...

im3w1l 4y ago

A country can print money, but there are other things that are in shorter supply. Namely natural resources and labor.

Aerroon 4y ago

>see Covid relief packages And after this the US has hit levels of inflation that it hasn't seen for 50 years. Before that inflation was that high in WW2. Printing money is not free, neither is tax money.

musha68k 4y ago
I didn't check if that's the actual (main?) reason for the inflation we are seeing since before February 2022. But let's suppose it is, there are still some entities who have been earning tons of money during this pandemic so far. Maybe Amazon, Pfizer & co just need to be taxed higher.

maerF0x0 4y ago

> can basically invent as much money as it needs to This is only true of the world's reserve currency (which is currently the USD). In all other cases they basically guarantee the issues stated elsewhere like inflation.