6 ms·

Depends on how you think about it. You could say that you 'own' it but you have obligations (lease payments) or it will be seized. The same is true for proper

by furyg3 4y ago

Depends on how you think about it. You could say that you 'own' it but you have obligations (lease payments) or it will be seized. The same is true for property you 'own', if you don't pay your taxes or fail to manage the property, it will be seized.

em1sar 4y ago
not paying taxes on your property is different from not owning something and missing a recurring payment.
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  Not really. With property taxes, you lease the title to “your” land from the government.
  - happymellon 4y ago
    Except that if you don't pay your taxes, they might not take your house. If you fail to pay your lease then they will reclaim that particular item.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      > if you don't pay your taxes, they might not take your house. At least in the states they absolutely do. It starts off as a tax lien which is then sold to whoever wants to buy it, so that the private sector handles actually reclaiming the land and re-listing it on the stock market.
      - happymellon 4y ago
        That is just how US law is structured though. They could just as easily say that they will reclaim the loss through recovery of your assets or by weight in blood. https://www.bristol.gov.uk/council-tax/what-happens-if-you-dont-pay https://www.bristol.gov.uk/council-tax/what-happens-if-you-d... In the UK the process is different, which just shows that they don't have to take your house to reclaim outstanding taxes. The point is that the government has options, if the property recovery value doesn't cover the missing taxes then I'm sure they will recover through other avenues. If you lease a car and don't pay, they can really only reclaim the car.
        sgjohnson 4y ago
        Council tax is not the same as property tax.
        happymellon 4y ago
        They are government taxes based upon the value of your house. The government can take whatever they want in repayment as they are the government.
      - judge2020 4y ago
        I realize my huge mistake calling it the "stock market". It's the real estate market.
dizhn 4y ago
The registration would show the name of the real owner. I don't think this is a good example.
- judge2020 4y ago
  That doesn't really change much though? It can still be taken from you for non-payment. What does it matter if some piece of paper says you "own" it if the courts will still allow someone to repossess it? Also this depends on the state, some US states are set up where the bank owns the title until the borrower pays it off, and others have the borrower on the title from the start but with a lien on the car by the lender in case the borrower doesn't pay. https://realestatelicensewizard.com/title-theory-vs-lien-theory/ https://realestatelicensewizard.com/title-theory-vs-lien-the...
  - dizhn 4y ago
    Actually if I remember correctly (at least in NJ) the registration shows the name of the creditor as the owner. That was my only past experience. Mine was a vote in the "no you don't own it" direction and mine was financing not even a lease. (Not that they are fundamentally so different)
    - logifail 4y ago
      Vehicle registration rules in the UK[0] make a clear distinction between the "registered keeper" of a vehicle (the person who "keeps" it, uses it day-to-day, and who is responsible for taxing it), and a vehicle's owner. A vehicle's registration papers show the keeper's name and details but the document states in large letters "This document is not proof of ownership". [0] https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/new-and-used-vehicles https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/new-and-used-vehicle...
      - dizhn 4y ago
        I think our paperwork shows the registration info of the person who registred it. Like in UK this is not ownership by itself. The paperwork also has a section for any liens on the property. This can be the creditor from the beginning or a private person or a government entity can have a claim due to debts. Nowadays these are all in the system of course. The paper card does not mean anything. Everything is looked up on the spot.

by furyg3 4y ago

em1sar 4y ago

not paying taxes on your property is different from not owning something and missing a recurring payment.

sgjohnson 4y ago
Not really. With property taxes, you lease the title to “your” land from the government.
- happymellon 4y ago
  Except that if you don't pay your taxes, they might not take your house. If you fail to pay your lease then they will reclaim that particular item.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    > if you don't pay your taxes, they might not take your house. At least in the states they absolutely do. It starts off as a tax lien which is then sold to whoever wants to buy it, so that the private sector handles actually reclaiming the land and re-listing it on the stock market.
    - happymellon 4y ago
      That is just how US law is structured though. They could just as easily say that they will reclaim the loss through recovery of your assets or by weight in blood. https://www.bristol.gov.uk/council-tax/what-happens-if-you-dont-pay https://www.bristol.gov.uk/council-tax/what-happens-if-you-d... In the UK the process is different, which just shows that they don't have to take your house to reclaim outstanding taxes. The point is that the government has options, if the property recovery value doesn't cover the missing taxes then I'm sure they will recover through other avenues. If you lease a car and don't pay, they can really only reclaim the car.
      - sgjohnson 4y ago
        Council tax is not the same as property tax.
        happymellon 4y ago
        They are government taxes based upon the value of your house. The government can take whatever they want in repayment as they are the government.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      I realize my huge mistake calling it the "stock market". It's the real estate market.

dizhn 4y ago

The registration would show the name of the real owner. I don't think this is a good example.

judge2020 4y ago
That doesn't really change much though? It can still be taken from you for non-payment. What does it matter if some piece of paper says you "own" it if the courts will still allow someone to repossess it? Also this depends on the state, some US states are set up where the bank owns the title until the borrower pays it off, and others have the borrower on the title from the start but with a lien on the car by the lender in case the borrower doesn't pay. https://realestatelicensewizard.com/title-theory-vs-lien-theory/ https://realestatelicensewizard.com/title-theory-vs-lien-the...
- dizhn 4y ago
  Actually if I remember correctly (at least in NJ) the registration shows the name of the creditor as the owner. That was my only past experience. Mine was a vote in the "no you don't own it" direction and mine was financing not even a lease. (Not that they are fundamentally so different)
  - logifail 4y ago
    Vehicle registration rules in the UK[0] make a clear distinction between the "registered keeper" of a vehicle (the person who "keeps" it, uses it day-to-day, and who is responsible for taxing it), and a vehicle's owner. A vehicle's registration papers show the keeper's name and details but the document states in large letters "This document is not proof of ownership". [0] https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/new-and-used-vehicles https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/new-and-used-vehicle...
    - dizhn 4y ago
      I think our paperwork shows the registration info of the person who registred it. Like in UK this is not ownership by itself. The paperwork also has a section for any liens on the property. This can be the creditor from the beginning or a private person or a government entity can have a claim due to debts. Nowadays these are all in the system of course. The paper card does not mean anything. Everything is looked up on the spot.