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> To any techie, that's a problem, especially when a MacBook costs more than anything else I've ever owned. I don’t mean to be adversarial, but are you saying

> To any techie, that's a problem, especially when a MacBook costs more than anything else I've ever owned. I don’t mean to be adversarial, but are you saying you’re a techie who never owned something costing more than $1K?

MagnumOpus 4y ago
If you are under 30 and live in a major city with access to public transport, you might not be able to afford the downpayment for a house while never needing to buy a car, the other big ticket item. (And usually other appliances/toys are cheaper than Apple products, be it bikes, TVs, game consoles etc).
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  I understand. I have been under 30 in a major city. I'm a lot older than that now and am still unable to afford the downpayment for a house, regardless of the need for a car. That said, a 1K computer that would wholly replace your other (probably >1K) computer shouldn't really affect your ability to afford that.
eternityforest 4y ago
I'm not exactly sure how much my computer costs offhand, since it's been upgraded with RAM and an SSD, but it is probably still a bit under $1k, although likely a bit over if you count all the accessories. I made the very highly questionable choice of getting into embedded systems with no degree or math talent, and while being clumsy enough I probably shouldn't drive. .... so I have never made more than $30k a year, usually less, even when I've been in semi-leadership-ish roles designing $10k equipment. A lot of the big companies that have a spare 100 grand laying around seem to want people who can do RF design and hand solder a BGA. Low volume work for ultra small non-tech companies is a pretty different skillset. There's nothing all that advanced, but the schedules are tight, things have to be repairable by people with very limited training, you're doing lots of unrelated work, there's legacy gear everywhere, arbitrary marketing related restrictions, and hardware costs matter. Admittedly not a very big issue for most working professionals, but I would think it could be a bit of a problem for anyone in a non-tech industry trying to learn on their own.
- jiggawatts 4y ago
  Sometimes it is easy to forget that there's a huge range of incomes around the world, and iGadgets are distinctively premium. They're targetted at Californian yuppies, and get less popular as you move further from that target demographic. In third-world countries, Android has nearly 100% market share. In some Western countries, Apple is supreme. At the same time, there have been comments (here also), that because iDevices have such amazing support and hence longevity, they're actually more cost-efficient. Hand-me-downs and resale value make an investment into an iPhone or iPad actually better value for money than replacing an Android device several times over the same time span because Samsung et al like to drop support like it's going out of style. For example, an iPhone I bought 6 years ago is still actively supported and in-use by some elderly relatives. It still gets updates! Reminds me of this quote from Terry Prattchet's discworld series: A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.”
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    Great points, thanks!
  - eternityforest 4y ago
    I'm not sure they're targeted at California yuppies. There are people way worse off than me who not only have an iPhone, it's less than 3 years old. In some places it seems like you can even get looked down on for not having one. Seems like there's a lot of premium goods in that category. iPhones kind of have to be, they wouldn't be very useful if they weren't mass market with the ecosystem that comes with that. They might be very slightly more cost effective in the long run, but many modern Android devices promise multiple years of support, and of course, one can(As I'm currently doing, but should probably stop) use them beyond that period, or install aftermarket firmware on some of them. Samsung seems to do security updates for about 4 years now, and OnePlus promises 3 major versions.

MagnumOpus 4y ago

If you are under 30 and live in a major city with access to public transport, you might not be able to afford the downpayment for a house while never needing to buy a car, the other big ticket item. (And usually other appliances/toys are cheaper than Apple products, be it bikes, TVs, game consoles etc).

cassianoleal 4y ago
I understand. I have been under 30 in a major city. I'm a lot older than that now and am still unable to afford the downpayment for a house, regardless of the need for a car. That said, a 1K computer that would wholly replace your other (probably >1K) computer shouldn't really affect your ability to afford that.

eternityforest 4y ago

I'm not exactly sure how much my computer costs offhand, since it's been upgraded with RAM and an SSD, but it is probably still a bit under $1k, although likely a bit over if you count all the accessories. I made the very highly questionable choice of getting into embedded systems with no degree or math talent, and while being clumsy enough I probably shouldn't drive. .... so I have never made more than $30k a year, usually less, even when I've been in semi-leadership-ish roles designing $10k equipment. A lot of the big companies that have a spare 100 grand laying around seem to want people who can do RF design and hand solder a BGA. Low volume work for ultra small non-tech companies is a pretty different skillset. There's nothing all that advanced, but the schedules are tight, things have to be repairable by people with very limited training, you're doing lots of unrelated work, there's legacy gear everywhere, arbitrary marketing related restrictions, and hardware costs matter. Admittedly not a very big issue for most working professionals, but I would think it could be a bit of a problem for anyone in a non-tech industry trying to learn on their own.

jiggawatts 4y ago
Sometimes it is easy to forget that there's a huge range of incomes around the world, and iGadgets are distinctively premium. They're targetted at Californian yuppies, and get less popular as you move further from that target demographic. In third-world countries, Android has nearly 100% market share. In some Western countries, Apple is supreme. At the same time, there have been comments (here also), that because iDevices have such amazing support and hence longevity, they're actually more cost-efficient. Hand-me-downs and resale value make an investment into an iPhone or iPad actually better value for money than replacing an Android device several times over the same time span because Samsung et al like to drop support like it's going out of style. For example, an iPhone I bought 6 years ago is still actively supported and in-use by some elderly relatives. It still gets updates! Reminds me of this quote from Terry Prattchet's discworld series: A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.”
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  Great points, thanks!
- eternityforest 4y ago
  I'm not sure they're targeted at California yuppies. There are people way worse off than me who not only have an iPhone, it's less than 3 years old. In some places it seems like you can even get looked down on for not having one. Seems like there's a lot of premium goods in that category. iPhones kind of have to be, they wouldn't be very useful if they weren't mass market with the ecosystem that comes with that. They might be very slightly more cost effective in the long run, but many modern Android devices promise multiple years of support, and of course, one can(As I'm currently doing, but should probably stop) use them beyond that period, or install aftermarket firmware on some of them. Samsung seems to do security updates for about 4 years now, and OnePlus promises 3 major versions.