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I'm by no means an Apple fanboy, and the presentation[0] had me slack-jawed. This is a serious shot across the bow for other companies who are vying for do-eve

I'm by no means an Apple fanboy, and the presentation[0] had me slack-jawed. This is a serious shot across the bow for other companies who are vying for do-everything-be-everywhere dominance (basically, Google). I can only assume that product design/vision people at Google are watching this and absolutely shitting their pants (if I'm over-blowing it please let let me know). Also, despite how absolutely customer beneficial almost every change looks, Apple (and other similar size companies) probably should be broken up. This is too much power, too many markets to dominate, too much synergy for one company to wield. They will never meet the current legal requirements for a monopoly, but this is definitely monopoly power on display. Apple is an existential threat to so many companies (Venmo, BNPL firms, activity trackers, news companies, traditional TV broadcasters) and they seemingly execute so well that I don't even know where to start. How can a BNPL firm compete with apple offering the same service at no extra charge? Just the disappearance of easy money has crashed their valuations already. They managed to describe AI/ML in an actual meaningful way halfway through the presentation. I'm impressed by that messaging in and of itself -- most of the time AI/ML is introduced as future porn/hand waves, Apple is engendering trust. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5D55G7Ejs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5D55G7Ejs8

vxNsr 4y ago
I felt the same way watching some of the super cool things google is giving to pixel phone users at IO last month.
Gigachad 4y ago
I don't think you are overstating it. They have achieved massive amounts everywhere and swiftly wipe out entire companies with ease. But on the other hand, they deliver products that are simply much better than what they replace. Apple completely obsoleted Tile with AirTags, but the airtags work so much better and users are better off for having them. Are we really better off having competition for competitions sake rather than looking at what delivers the best outcome? Is there any value in preserving the business models of lesser products which are unable to compete on quality and features? Many of these businesses are on shaky ground anyway. BNPL companies are in a dire situation where almost every other financial institution such as banks, paypal, etc all copying their very easy to copy product.
- cowtools 4y ago
  I think you're leaving out the fact that the airtags system is part of an intrusive global surveilance botnet run by the likes of apple. But I suppose putting all this power in the hands of so few people is worth it if some clueless consumers can find their keys faster. Edit: This may sound ridiculous, but I seriously do not think companies like apple or microsoft have ever contributed anything of value to society. They are merely rent-seeking operations.
  - ntSean 4y ago
    That does sound ridiculous. They have market dominance because of the value that they offer. IBM is a great example of a company falling from grace; it happens all the time and can happen to Apple. Rent-seeking is a seperate issue, but no different to the Industrial Age and how Railway providers would do the same. We have inadequate governance.
    - RNAlfons 4y ago
      > They have market dominance because of the value that they offer. This isn't true for Microsoft. They're a monopoly for most of the PCs on this planet and since they've been that for years now, changes to a different system which may still work out are hard and sometimes even impossible. Same goes for the mobile infrastructure for different reasons. Someone who "grew up" in the Apple infrastructure will have a hard time changing to Android and vice versa. However people within the Android infrastructure have at least a greater choice of hardware (and for a few of them choice of an Android version).
      - theshrike79 4y ago
        Exactly. Microsoft makes so completely bonkers amounts of money just from Windows and Office that they can use it to prop up other branches of their business that aren't generating profit yet.
  - dijit 4y ago
    I love Linux, though my love is waning and I’m starting to see the light of BSD, so don’t get me wrong here… but what you wrote is just painful to read. Firstly, the “botnet” is afaik opt-in and it still has a semblance of privacy in its design. You might do well to inform yourself of how it works and how people have played around with it. Saying that Apple or Microsoft have not added value to the world is just absurd. For one thing; we would very unlikely be running windowing systems of any kind without them. I know that sounds absurd and like it was inevitable, but there was nobody else doing that at the time afaik. Second to that Apple did put a lot of effort into typography on computers, something nobody else was doing: so you can thank them for fonts. Microsoft made popular the idea of ad-hoc file sharing with samba/smb. Microsoft’s office suites, love them or hate them, literally run the world; I can’t even imagine a company that doesn’t interact with excel. Apple created (or at least heavily developed) CUPS; which remains the best way to print on every UNIX system I’m aware of. These are just a few examples, and sure, the history is mired with anti-competitive bullshit and forced attempts at pushing awful technology, but… Such blatant ignorance is unjustified on this forum. I’m honestly ashamed.
HappyTypist 4y ago
Yeah but Apple products are so expensive, outside of the USA, most[1] people still use Android simply because their budget for a phone is maybe ~$300-$400 and they don't want a SE with the body from 5 years ago. [1]: 73% according to StatCounter.
- PaywallBuster 4y ago
  the new SE is quite affordable though and it lowers the barrier of entry
  - 2143 4y ago
    Sure, but Android phones with better specs (and bigger screens) are cheaper. People naturally gravitate towards those.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      Unless you get stuck with an Exynos-powered Samsung phone[0]. 0: https://reddit.com/r/samsung/comments/v5nkpm/s22_horrible_experience/ https://reddit.com/r/samsung/comments/v5nkpm/s22_horrible_ex...
      - pietro72ohboy 4y ago
        Samsung is not the only option around. A lot of Chinese OEMs (Vivo et al.) make fantastic android phones at very affordable prices.
    - brtkdotse 4y ago
      Have you ever seen a non-techie buy a phone? No one cares about specs.
    - Arn_Thor 4y ago
      Specs might be better, but in real-world performance Apple provides the smoother experience. Not to mention that software support is sparse and short-lived for Android phones in that budget range. Sadly...
Krasnol 4y ago
- hardwaresofton 4y ago
  > I like how you say that you're no Apple fanboy but proceed with an absolutely content free praise post about how godly Apple is. You didn't even bother to mention a single feature of the update :D Everything I mentioned... is from the update and other stuff from the link. Seeing the massive amount of updates that actually seem like huge wins for consumers is what triggered the thought I typed out. We're on HN to talk about interesting angles/takes, and if you've noticed I hid at least two in my post, which is why I thought it was worth posting: - PMs at Google should really be worried right now - Apple needs to be broken up > The best thing is: you're the top comment atm while the features mentioned in other comments (those which acutally mention features) are hilarious: tab weather to get past weather, mark comments as unread and for whatever reason: pair your phone to your laptop camera. The rest of that is classic HN -- users here are so technical (and usually have long standing grievances/wants) that they are interested in very specific feature sets and less fazed by the rest (especially if unlike me they are already Apple devotees). > I guess I keep on not watching the presentation and wait how this thread develops. It's a fantastic advertising implosion. It's advertising, but it's also a shot across the bow (again, why I made my comment). Apple barely needs to advertise intentionally/drum up a buzz storm, and especially here on HN. Apple is one of the most valuable companies in the world, WWDC touches the lives of many successful developers (they mentioned 33MM devs in the apple program, that is insane), it is naturally of importance to much of HN. The company, what it stands for, and it's history are all deeply embedded in the minds of technologists the world over. Again, I really am not a Apple fanboy (nor some Apple PR sockpuppet account): - I barely talk about apple on my blog[0] - I don't write Swift -- (it wasn't very good last time I glanced at it compared to the alternatives) - I definitely don't like ObjC (weird bad lisp? no thank you) - I don't develop apps natively (NativeScript for the win), I don't even have an active app developer account - I use an SE2, but most features stay off and I buy it precisely because I do not plan to change it for the next 10 years if I can get away from it (also, RIP FirefoxOS) I was just really impressed with their presentation, and my biggest take away were the thoughts I shared here, because they might be interesting (and Google PMs are here). Seeing a company this dominant is kind of alarming -- you can't do the usual handwave of "oh but their product is bad". The problem is that their product is actually very good, and they seem to be the ones that care most about your privacy and align with your goals. [EDIT] - Correction, Apple isn't the most valuable company in the world [0]: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Avadosware.io+apple https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Avadosware.io+apple
2143 4y ago
> I can only assume that product design/vision people at Google are watching this and absolutely shitting their pants (if I'm over-blowing it please let let me know). You're overblowing it. Nobody is shitting their pants. I agree that Android phones are inferior compared to iPhone (since forever?). And Google knows it. But you're underestimating the beast that Google is. Infact I think Google even gave up on making flagship devices, because Pixel phones are positioned as a midrange device. It's a Ferrari vs Toyota situation. Now, if Apple comes up with a search engine that magically gives you the best result up top everytime, _then_ Google would be really concerned and have a code-brown situation (even if search engine is not where the majority of $$$ comes from).
- robinsonrc 4y ago
  Let me know if Google comes up with a search engine that magically gives me the best result up too every time (like it used to)
  - 2143 4y ago
    That's my point. Google search has degraded. If Apple comes up with a great search engine, then Google would be concerned.
- hardwaresofton 4y ago
  Well glad I asked -- HN always has good takes from people who are actually in the room. > But you're underestimating the beast that Google is. When I think of how Google exerts it's power on the consumer I can think of these things: - Search - GMail (the on-ramp to GSuite) - Chrome - Android These are all powerhouses, but they're not unassailable. In fact I think Apple's moat is more defensible than Google's -- lots of companies have tried and failed. I'd love to hear why I'm wrong though, I've never worked at big G or worked in ads or some other sector they Google is dominant. Google is making some great inroads with Chromebooks (and essentially trying to get the next generation), but... Just about everything Google does I'd rather trust Apple with, and all that we're waiting for is them to give me the chance.
  - 4y ago
mongol 4y ago
> if I'm over-blowing it please let let me know Yes you are
emptysongglass 4y ago
I'll try not to be too casually dismissive but let me start by saying your gushing reads nearly content-free. You asked to let you know if you're over-blowing it and yes I believe you are. I'm a millennial and don't see anything that blows me away by this keynote. Should they be broken up? Yes, together with the other tech giants. Are they doing something that's particularly amazing compared to what Google is doing with the Pixel? Not really. Google was doing magic eraser before iOS 16. They're "just" a tech company, if a monolithic one. They're not meaningfully improving the lives of humans in a way that lifts millions out of mental illness. Emoji wallpapers are nothing more than distractive features to our inevitable suffering. Let's try and temper our praise of what tech companies are actually doing for humans so we can focus on what's important in life: the reduction of human suffering globally, improving outcomes in welfare holistically for all people everywhere.
- hardwaresofton 4y ago
  > I'll try not to be too casually dismissive but let me start by saying your gushing reads nearly content-free. You asked to let you know if you're over-blowing it and yes I believe you are. I'm a millennial and don't see anything that blows me away by this keynote. Appreciate it! Yeah, I figured maybe I'm just not used to enough WWDCs -- but surely they can't be this feature packed every time. There are some seriously good consumer-facing features in here, that I find it easy to not be cycnical about. > Should they be broken up? Yes, together with the other tech giants. Are they doing something that's particularly amazing compared to what Google is doing with the Pixel? Not really. Google was doing magic eraser before iOS 16. But this isn't really about just one feature in particular -- the combination of these features under Apple just seems more cohesive than when Google puts them together. When I see Google Pay, I don't think it's going to kill Venmo -- when I see Apple doing peer to peer payments, I worry for Venmo. There's also an implicit trust (their continued emphasis on "privacy", they're leaning into it hard), and Apple has built a reputation on having things be easy to use for the end user -- even if it's at the expense of control and power users. Google has less of that golden UX reputation, and a lot of people get really turned off by the proliferation of low price and also low quality devices that are full of bloat/spyware and end up sacrificing user time. Low price does not imply low quality, and I prefer the relative openness of the Android, but I have to admit that Apple does UX pretty well. > They're "just" a tech company, if a monolithic one. They're not meaningfully improving the lives of humans in a way that lifts millions out of mental illness. Emoji wallpapers are nothing more than distractive features to our inevitable suffering. This is interesting... uhh that's one of the biggest companies in the world. Not one of the biggest tech companies, one of the biggest companies period, by revenue. I'd argue they're doing a lot for improving lives of humans, though not necessarily related to mental illness -- that you have to lay at the feet of some of the social media companies and other things. Emoji wallpapers are distracting features, but what about the people who organize local protests or use their iPhones to look up vital information? Gotta take the good with the bad here -- most of the examples were also pictures of people who were important (i.e. presenters' family members). For example one of the presentations that really hit me was the easy of parental controls/time limits for devices -- in my mind they've just become the default correct choice for parents who have to grapple with how to control their childrens' exposure to the internet/content. It's a bit of a first world problem, but still it's one that parents the world over will have to deal with and they've chosen to spend time making it easy. Apple is somewhat sheltered from the bread-and-circus promoters designation in my mind because they really do produce tooling -- iDevices have stayed tools and for the most part are not as surveillance heavy as other similar tools. > Let's try and temper our praise of what tech companies are actually doing for humans so we can focus on what's important in life: the reduction of human suffering globally, improving outcomes in welfare holistically for all people everywhere. I agree with this sentiment, but it seems little weirdly moralistic -- the world is actually doing massively better, human suffering is trending downwards. It's not all gone obviously but most of human life is getting better -- Apple can do more to help move that along, but doesn't seem like a reason to downplay their accomplishments either. Again, I just want to state I'm not a diehard Apple fan, but I think I can reserve the right to be impressed!
sngz 4y ago
> and they seemingly execute so well that I don't even know where to start. I guess I'd have to disagree. the only product that apple really blows out the rest of the competition out of the water are probably in wearables, and that's mostly due to google's incompetence. Everything else is dominating market share either due to owning macbooks being a fashion statement / status symbol, or people are forced into it by the walled garden because they already own one or two of their products. I'd also might agree in the tablet space you could argue they are probably better than android but I wouldn't say they are doing better by much, it's mostly the app ecosystem for tablets being really poor in android.
- kingboss 4y ago
  Or maybe, juuust maybe, those M1/M2 Macbook Airs really are great value for money and superior to anything in that price range? Ever thought of that? Maybe it isn't just people being slaves to fashion.
  - sngz 4y ago
    let me know when they don't break my container images when I build them. Or support bootcamp / parallel / fusion. I agree what they are trying to do with the M1/M2 macbooks is good but right now its just an over priced email checking / movie watching machine. I rather get a tablet for that.
    - ricardobeat 4y ago
      Where are you getting that from? These laptops are monsters at compiling code, video editing and a ton of other professional uses. Yeah, it's a new architecture, but this 'problem' is mostly solved and the remaining issues (like actual x86 emulation that is not qslow as molasses) concerns 1% of the user base.
      - sngz 4y ago
        wife is an iOS dev for a large company, none of her stuff for her current app would compile properly when they did a pilot test to swap to M1 macbooks. I currently work for a govt contractor and was piloting the M1 macbooks for our project. It would compile fine locally but the images won't not run properly on rancher / k8s if we pushed our images up from our laptops. Would still work if we built it from our CI/CD servers, but that didn't exactly inspire confidence for us to switch over when what we test locally will be different from whats in test.
flohofwoe 4y ago
Sorry, but I'm not seeing it. Both iOS and Android are way past their "diminishing returns peak", and that's fine. They both do everything most people need out of a smartphone, and have been doing so for a decade. All that's left is adding random features and services and selling them as groundbreaking innovations.
- ad-astra 4y ago
  Incremental improvement is a much more reliable vehicle for improvement than radical redesign [citation needed]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
neonsunset 4y ago
Important consideration is that Apple has the advantage of bending the shape of their APIs to serve their needs to deliver best results. However, due to how closed off the platform is, third-party developers can never even dream of having such privilege which means that they are simply not allowed to build experiences that can compete with Apple even if they could. This skims borderline on anti-competitive behaviour which will probably cause more regulatory scrutiny in the future. It is also an interesting question what is the overreach and what is genuine investment - Apple will go out of their way to solve a problem in silicon if they can't do so otherwise yet this is not something that you can probably fit in a legal framework easily.
chazeon 4y ago
I agree with you. This year’s WWDC is a clear indication that Apple has the appetite for everything. CarPlay is the best example.
adlorger 4y ago
can you clarify your case here about Apple as an antitrust or monopoly power? In what ways are they using their market power to diminish welfare or competitiveness of the marketplace?
- hardwaresofton 4y ago
  > In what ways are they using their market power to diminish welfare or competitiveness of the marketplace? I think my example of BNPL firms is pretty good! Very hard to compete with BNPL @ no extra cost, from the company that already knows quite a bit about you, even if they never share it.
mrsalt 4y ago
>How can a BNPL firm compete with apple offering the same service at no extra charge? Just the disappearance of easy money has crashed their valuations already. Not really relevant to your point as a whole, but about BNPL. In Mexico basically any credit card worth having offers BNPL. Typically the agreed solution is just to charge interest to the merchant. Stripe Mexico has it: https://stripe.com/mx/pricing/local-payment-methods https://stripe.com/mx/pricing/local-payment-methods (see meses sin intereses), for an example of the fees involved. In addition to this there are some institutions (like American Express) that offer BNPL at no charge for the merchant (other than the interchange fee). No consumer pays interest in this scheme (it's in the name: meses sin intereses, months without interest), well, as long as they don't miss a payment (they charge interest then). So at least for this industry I don't think Apple is major threat. Surely BNPL firms can figure something like this out for the US. I think Mexico is not unique in this scheme.

vxNsr 4y ago

I felt the same way watching some of the super cool things google is giving to pixel phone users at IO last month.

Gigachad 4y ago

I don't think you are overstating it. They have achieved massive amounts everywhere and swiftly wipe out entire companies with ease. But on the other hand, they deliver products that are simply much better than what they replace. Apple completely obsoleted Tile with AirTags, but the airtags work so much better and users are better off for having them. Are we really better off having competition for competitions sake rather than looking at what delivers the best outcome? Is there any value in preserving the business models of lesser products which are unable to compete on quality and features? Many of these businesses are on shaky ground anyway. BNPL companies are in a dire situation where almost every other financial institution such as banks, paypal, etc all copying their very easy to copy product.

cowtools 4y ago
I think you're leaving out the fact that the airtags system is part of an intrusive global surveilance botnet run by the likes of apple. But I suppose putting all this power in the hands of so few people is worth it if some clueless consumers can find their keys faster. Edit: This may sound ridiculous, but I seriously do not think companies like apple or microsoft have ever contributed anything of value to society. They are merely rent-seeking operations.
- ntSean 4y ago
  That does sound ridiculous. They have market dominance because of the value that they offer. IBM is a great example of a company falling from grace; it happens all the time and can happen to Apple. Rent-seeking is a seperate issue, but no different to the Industrial Age and how Railway providers would do the same. We have inadequate governance.
  - RNAlfons 4y ago
    > They have market dominance because of the value that they offer. This isn't true for Microsoft. They're a monopoly for most of the PCs on this planet and since they've been that for years now, changes to a different system which may still work out are hard and sometimes even impossible. Same goes for the mobile infrastructure for different reasons. Someone who "grew up" in the Apple infrastructure will have a hard time changing to Android and vice versa. However people within the Android infrastructure have at least a greater choice of hardware (and for a few of them choice of an Android version).
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      Exactly. Microsoft makes so completely bonkers amounts of money just from Windows and Office that they can use it to prop up other branches of their business that aren't generating profit yet.
- dijit 4y ago
  I love Linux, though my love is waning and I’m starting to see the light of BSD, so don’t get me wrong here… but what you wrote is just painful to read. Firstly, the “botnet” is afaik opt-in and it still has a semblance of privacy in its design. You might do well to inform yourself of how it works and how people have played around with it. Saying that Apple or Microsoft have not added value to the world is just absurd. For one thing; we would very unlikely be running windowing systems of any kind without them. I know that sounds absurd and like it was inevitable, but there was nobody else doing that at the time afaik. Second to that Apple did put a lot of effort into typography on computers, something nobody else was doing: so you can thank them for fonts. Microsoft made popular the idea of ad-hoc file sharing with samba/smb. Microsoft’s office suites, love them or hate them, literally run the world; I can’t even imagine a company that doesn’t interact with excel. Apple created (or at least heavily developed) CUPS; which remains the best way to print on every UNIX system I’m aware of. These are just a few examples, and sure, the history is mired with anti-competitive bullshit and forced attempts at pushing awful technology, but… Such blatant ignorance is unjustified on this forum. I’m honestly ashamed.

HappyTypist 4y ago

Yeah but Apple products are so expensive, outside of the USA, most[1] people still use Android simply because their budget for a phone is maybe ~$300-$400 and they don't want a SE with the body from 5 years ago. [1]: 73% according to StatCounter.

PaywallBuster 4y ago
the new SE is quite affordable though and it lowers the barrier of entry
- 2143 4y ago
  Sure, but Android phones with better specs (and bigger screens) are cheaper. People naturally gravitate towards those.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    Unless you get stuck with an Exynos-powered Samsung phone[0]. 0: https://reddit.com/r/samsung/comments/v5nkpm/s22_horrible_experience/ https://reddit.com/r/samsung/comments/v5nkpm/s22_horrible_ex...
    - pietro72ohboy 4y ago
      Samsung is not the only option around. A lot of Chinese OEMs (Vivo et al.) make fantastic android phones at very affordable prices.
  - brtkdotse 4y ago
    Have you ever seen a non-techie buy a phone? No one cares about specs.
  - Arn_Thor 4y ago
    Specs might be better, but in real-world performance Apple provides the smoother experience. Not to mention that software support is sparse and short-lived for Android phones in that budget range. Sadly...

Krasnol 4y ago

hardwaresofton 4y ago
> I like how you say that you're no Apple fanboy but proceed with an absolutely content free praise post about how godly Apple is. You didn't even bother to mention a single feature of the update :D Everything I mentioned... is from the update and other stuff from the link. Seeing the massive amount of updates that actually seem like huge wins for consumers is what triggered the thought I typed out. We're on HN to talk about interesting angles/takes, and if you've noticed I hid at least two in my post, which is why I thought it was worth posting: - PMs at Google should really be worried right now - Apple needs to be broken up > The best thing is: you're the top comment atm while the features mentioned in other comments (those which acutally mention features) are hilarious: tab weather to get past weather, mark comments as unread and for whatever reason: pair your phone to your laptop camera. The rest of that is classic HN -- users here are so technical (and usually have long standing grievances/wants) that they are interested in very specific feature sets and less fazed by the rest (especially if unlike me they are already Apple devotees). > I guess I keep on not watching the presentation and wait how this thread develops. It's a fantastic advertising implosion. It's advertising, but it's also a shot across the bow (again, why I made my comment). Apple barely needs to advertise intentionally/drum up a buzz storm, and especially here on HN. Apple is one of the most valuable companies in the world, WWDC touches the lives of many successful developers (they mentioned 33MM devs in the apple program, that is insane), it is naturally of importance to much of HN. The company, what it stands for, and it's history are all deeply embedded in the minds of technologists the world over. Again, I really am not a Apple fanboy (nor some Apple PR sockpuppet account): - I barely talk about apple on my blog[0] - I don't write Swift -- (it wasn't very good last time I glanced at it compared to the alternatives) - I definitely don't like ObjC (weird bad lisp? no thank you) - I don't develop apps natively (NativeScript for the win), I don't even have an active app developer account - I use an SE2, but most features stay off and I buy it precisely because I do not plan to change it for the next 10 years if I can get away from it (also, RIP FirefoxOS) I was just really impressed with their presentation, and my biggest take away were the thoughts I shared here, because they might be interesting (and Google PMs are here). Seeing a company this dominant is kind of alarming -- you can't do the usual handwave of "oh but their product is bad". The problem is that their product is actually very good, and they seem to be the ones that care most about your privacy and align with your goals. [EDIT] - Correction, Apple isn't the most valuable company in the world [0]: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Avadosware.io+apple https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Avadosware.io+apple

2143 4y ago

> I can only assume that product design/vision people at Google are watching this and absolutely shitting their pants (if I'm over-blowing it please let let me know). You're overblowing it. Nobody is shitting their pants. I agree that Android phones are inferior compared to iPhone (since forever?). And Google knows it. But you're underestimating the beast that Google is. Infact I think Google even gave up on making flagship devices, because Pixel phones are positioned as a midrange device. It's a Ferrari vs Toyota situation. Now, if Apple comes up with a search engine that magically gives you the best result up top everytime, _then_ Google would be really concerned and have a code-brown situation (even if search engine is not where the majority of $$$ comes from).

robinsonrc 4y ago
Let me know if Google comes up with a search engine that magically gives me the best result up too every time (like it used to)
- 2143 4y ago
  That's my point. Google search has degraded. If Apple comes up with a great search engine, then Google would be concerned.
hardwaresofton 4y ago
Well glad I asked -- HN always has good takes from people who are actually in the room. > But you're underestimating the beast that Google is. When I think of how Google exerts it's power on the consumer I can think of these things: - Search - GMail (the on-ramp to GSuite) - Chrome - Android These are all powerhouses, but they're not unassailable. In fact I think Apple's moat is more defensible than Google's -- lots of companies have tried and failed. I'd love to hear why I'm wrong though, I've never worked at big G or worked in ads or some other sector they Google is dominant. Google is making some great inroads with Chromebooks (and essentially trying to get the next generation), but... Just about everything Google does I'd rather trust Apple with, and all that we're waiting for is them to give me the chance.
- 4y ago

mongol 4y ago

> if I'm over-blowing it please let let me know Yes you are

emptysongglass 4y ago

I'll try not to be too casually dismissive but let me start by saying your gushing reads nearly content-free. You asked to let you know if you're over-blowing it and yes I believe you are. I'm a millennial and don't see anything that blows me away by this keynote. Should they be broken up? Yes, together with the other tech giants. Are they doing something that's particularly amazing compared to what Google is doing with the Pixel? Not really. Google was doing magic eraser before iOS 16. They're "just" a tech company, if a monolithic one. They're not meaningfully improving the lives of humans in a way that lifts millions out of mental illness. Emoji wallpapers are nothing more than distractive features to our inevitable suffering. Let's try and temper our praise of what tech companies are actually doing for humans so we can focus on what's important in life: the reduction of human suffering globally, improving outcomes in welfare holistically for all people everywhere.

hardwaresofton 4y ago
> I'll try not to be too casually dismissive but let me start by saying your gushing reads nearly content-free. You asked to let you know if you're over-blowing it and yes I believe you are. I'm a millennial and don't see anything that blows me away by this keynote. Appreciate it! Yeah, I figured maybe I'm just not used to enough WWDCs -- but surely they can't be this feature packed every time. There are some seriously good consumer-facing features in here, that I find it easy to not be cycnical about. > Should they be broken up? Yes, together with the other tech giants. Are they doing something that's particularly amazing compared to what Google is doing with the Pixel? Not really. Google was doing magic eraser before iOS 16. But this isn't really about just one feature in particular -- the combination of these features under Apple just seems more cohesive than when Google puts them together. When I see Google Pay, I don't think it's going to kill Venmo -- when I see Apple doing peer to peer payments, I worry for Venmo. There's also an implicit trust (their continued emphasis on "privacy", they're leaning into it hard), and Apple has built a reputation on having things be easy to use for the end user -- even if it's at the expense of control and power users. Google has less of that golden UX reputation, and a lot of people get really turned off by the proliferation of low price and also low quality devices that are full of bloat/spyware and end up sacrificing user time. Low price does not imply low quality, and I prefer the relative openness of the Android, but I have to admit that Apple does UX pretty well. > They're "just" a tech company, if a monolithic one. They're not meaningfully improving the lives of humans in a way that lifts millions out of mental illness. Emoji wallpapers are nothing more than distractive features to our inevitable suffering. This is interesting... uhh that's one of the biggest companies in the world. Not one of the biggest tech companies, one of the biggest companies period, by revenue. I'd argue they're doing a lot for improving lives of humans, though not necessarily related to mental illness -- that you have to lay at the feet of some of the social media companies and other things. Emoji wallpapers are distracting features, but what about the people who organize local protests or use their iPhones to look up vital information? Gotta take the good with the bad here -- most of the examples were also pictures of people who were important (i.e. presenters' family members). For example one of the presentations that really hit me was the easy of parental controls/time limits for devices -- in my mind they've just become the default correct choice for parents who have to grapple with how to control their childrens' exposure to the internet/content. It's a bit of a first world problem, but still it's one that parents the world over will have to deal with and they've chosen to spend time making it easy. Apple is somewhat sheltered from the bread-and-circus promoters designation in my mind because they really do produce tooling -- iDevices have stayed tools and for the most part are not as surveillance heavy as other similar tools. > Let's try and temper our praise of what tech companies are actually doing for humans so we can focus on what's important in life: the reduction of human suffering globally, improving outcomes in welfare holistically for all people everywhere. I agree with this sentiment, but it seems little weirdly moralistic -- the world is actually doing massively better, human suffering is trending downwards. It's not all gone obviously but most of human life is getting better -- Apple can do more to help move that along, but doesn't seem like a reason to downplay their accomplishments either. Again, I just want to state I'm not a diehard Apple fan, but I think I can reserve the right to be impressed!

sngz 4y ago

> and they seemingly execute so well that I don't even know where to start. I guess I'd have to disagree. the only product that apple really blows out the rest of the competition out of the water are probably in wearables, and that's mostly due to google's incompetence. Everything else is dominating market share either due to owning macbooks being a fashion statement / status symbol, or people are forced into it by the walled garden because they already own one or two of their products. I'd also might agree in the tablet space you could argue they are probably better than android but I wouldn't say they are doing better by much, it's mostly the app ecosystem for tablets being really poor in android.

kingboss 4y ago
Or maybe, juuust maybe, those M1/M2 Macbook Airs really are great value for money and superior to anything in that price range? Ever thought of that? Maybe it isn't just people being slaves to fashion.
- sngz 4y ago
  let me know when they don't break my container images when I build them. Or support bootcamp / parallel / fusion. I agree what they are trying to do with the M1/M2 macbooks is good but right now its just an over priced email checking / movie watching machine. I rather get a tablet for that.
  - ricardobeat 4y ago
    Where are you getting that from? These laptops are monsters at compiling code, video editing and a ton of other professional uses. Yeah, it's a new architecture, but this 'problem' is mostly solved and the remaining issues (like actual x86 emulation that is not qslow as molasses) concerns 1% of the user base.
    - sngz 4y ago
      wife is an iOS dev for a large company, none of her stuff for her current app would compile properly when they did a pilot test to swap to M1 macbooks. I currently work for a govt contractor and was piloting the M1 macbooks for our project. It would compile fine locally but the images won't not run properly on rancher / k8s if we pushed our images up from our laptops. Would still work if we built it from our CI/CD servers, but that didn't exactly inspire confidence for us to switch over when what we test locally will be different from whats in test.

flohofwoe 4y ago

Sorry, but I'm not seeing it. Both iOS and Android are way past their "diminishing returns peak", and that's fine. They both do everything most people need out of a smartphone, and have been doing so for a decade. All that's left is adding random features and services and selling them as groundbreaking innovations.

ad-astra 4y ago
Incremental improvement is a much more reliable vehicle for improvement than radical redesign [citation needed]

deleted 4y ago

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neonsunset 4y ago

Important consideration is that Apple has the advantage of bending the shape of their APIs to serve their needs to deliver best results. However, due to how closed off the platform is, third-party developers can never even dream of having such privilege which means that they are simply not allowed to build experiences that can compete with Apple even if they could. This skims borderline on anti-competitive behaviour which will probably cause more regulatory scrutiny in the future. It is also an interesting question what is the overreach and what is genuine investment - Apple will go out of their way to solve a problem in silicon if they can't do so otherwise yet this is not something that you can probably fit in a legal framework easily.

chazeon 4y ago

I agree with you. This year’s WWDC is a clear indication that Apple has the appetite for everything. CarPlay is the best example.

adlorger 4y ago

can you clarify your case here about Apple as an antitrust or monopoly power? In what ways are they using their market power to diminish welfare or competitiveness of the marketplace?

hardwaresofton 4y ago
> In what ways are they using their market power to diminish welfare or competitiveness of the marketplace? I think my example of BNPL firms is pretty good! Very hard to compete with BNPL @ no extra cost, from the company that already knows quite a bit about you, even if they never share it.

mrsalt 4y ago

>How can a BNPL firm compete with apple offering the same service at no extra charge? Just the disappearance of easy money has crashed their valuations already. Not really relevant to your point as a whole, but about BNPL. In Mexico basically any credit card worth having offers BNPL. Typically the agreed solution is just to charge interest to the merchant. Stripe Mexico has it: https://stripe.com/mx/pricing/local-payment-methods https://stripe.com/mx/pricing/local-payment-methods (see meses sin intereses), for an example of the fees involved. In addition to this there are some institutions (like American Express) that offer BNPL at no charge for the merchant (other than the interchange fee). No consumer pays interest in this scheme (it's in the name: meses sin intereses, months without interest), well, as long as they don't miss a payment (they charge interest then). So at least for this industry I don't think Apple is major threat. Surely BNPL firms can figure something like this out for the US. I think Mexico is not unique in this scheme.