>> They [engineers] claimed never to have used anything beyond Excel and eighth grade level mathematics; never a trig function or even a log or exponential func

>> They [engineers] claimed never to have used anything beyond Excel and eighth grade level mathematics; never a trig function or even a log or exponential function! As a counterpoint, I use math on a daily basis as a principal engineer (architecting SpaceX's Starlink). In particular: lots of geometry/trig, optimization theory, linear algebra, Fourier analysis, quaternions, probability/statistics, control theory, dynamic programming, numerical methods. This is typically in the service of modeling physical systems, modulating or demodulation RF waveforms, and controlling or compensating for electrical circuits, orbital dynamics, etc.. The value of math is that it is an especially portable skill-- you can work in many fields and it still applies. I've worked so far in bio-sciences, chip design, and satellites / space. In each case the value of math was very high. US citizens are indeed underrepresented in mathematical degrees. In graduate school at MIT, the vast majority of my peers were not US citizens (EECS department). It's great the best and brightest from around the world study here, the US government should try hard to incentivize them to stick around (green cards, etc).