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Try explaining a password manager to your nana, and having her use it. Then explain to her how she can install it on her phone and have it synchronised across a

Try explaining a password manager to your nana, and having her use it. Then explain to her how she can install it on her phone and have it synchronised across all her devices. Password managers are awesome, but way too technical to become mainstream. You shouldn't have to install 3rd party software for something so fundamental. The password system really needs an overhaul and hopefully this will go along way towards fixing it.

makeitdouble 4y ago
> Try explaining a password manager to your nana It's an interesting issue, and wildly varies depending on who manages her devices. For instance if she has an iPhone with a windows computer, a third party manager brings uniformity to how she deals with login on any device she happens to use. Same if she happens to use a Chromebook. Or even if she uses an older Apple device, I'm assuming passkeys won't come to previous OSes, and upgrading a 2018 MBP just to get passkeys would come with a lot of trade-offs. Perhaps I'm seeing it as, it's already a complex mess already, and Apple didn't come with a silver buller to solve all that complexity in one swoop. PS: password managers are fairly straightforward to explain: it's a digital equivalent of the password notebook they keep in the side drawer
BuckRogers 4y ago
Sometimes I wonder how bright nana or papa really is as a result. If you won't dig into even an iPhone's settings to learn what's available, what it can do, good luck to you. That curiosity and willingness to play around, accompanied with Google searches when they don't know what something does, is critical in making it in the world today. Or if you remain a rube, and they will, you'll get scammed someday because you're not on the top of your game mentally. Just lazying it up. I've come to two solutions. Either Bitwarden or KeePass with only a mobile client to begin with. If they are managing that, then I graduate them to clients on multiple systems and the integration advantages that brings. I'm a KeePass Windows and Strongbox Pro user on iOS myself. Prefer to keep that database where I want it. Bitwarden is probably the ticket for most people though. If you start them on mobile only, it helps a lot.
- urthor 4y ago
  What a ridiculous thing to say. Nana and Papa are not locksmiths. Nana and Papa still deserve to have a front door to their house that can't be lockpicked. Normal people, who have other interests in life than configuring technology, should have secure devices and data from criminals. And they shouldn't have to configure 5 different obscure password managers to do so. Society shouldn't allow criminals to take advantage of Nana and Papa. This is one of the most embarrassing comments I've read on Hackernews.
  - BuckRogers 4y ago
    Expecting people to give the minimum of a damn is embarrassing to point out? It's true either way. Sometimes a certain level of complexity can't be abstracted over. This is no longer a fun toy in life. You may have your bank account credentials stolen if you don't wake up and pay attention to what you're looking at. To avoid being lockpicked you only need two-factor. It's that simple. You need some form of password manager, even if it's paper and pencil, until a megacorp handles it all for you. That'll require a universal standard to be adopted, which won't be here soon. The rest of your assertions are assuming a premise that I never stated. Feigning offense on the internet has really gone over the top. Of course people should have secure devices.
    - urthor 4y ago
      I expect people to do their best, within their capabilities. Nana and Papa are not technologically literate enough to perform the kinds of configurations you suggest. In depth custom password manager configuration isn't for them. They are not at fault for that. We simply cannot expect all of humanity to be that technologically literate. There are many, many roles in life that don't involve electronic devices that are immensely valuable. I think that's what I'm deeply offended by. It's not feigned. But I apologize I don't mean to imply you are talking in bad faith. That's out of line. My view is. Engineers cannot expect untrained, ordinary, people in the real world to operate and install complex software. We have a responsibility to provide them with secure devices they can use. Privacy and security from bad actors is a moral right.
whyenot 4y ago
Apple already has a password manager as part of iOS/MacOS. Your passwords sync seamlessly on other Apple devices via iCloud. There is nothing to install. My octogenarian mother uses it daily on her iPad and iMac.
i67vw3 4y ago
Password managers are already pretty easy to use from a nana's perspective. The main problem is that nana does not know that password managers exit itself. Most of them just input password as 'nana1234' and store it in their browser password manager (usually chrome password manager) and use chrome's autofill. Eg., I was telling a middle aged person (50 years) about password managers and were unable to grasp the idea of it. 'Why would you store passwords in cloud based password manager from a company I have never heard of, just type a password and write it down on your diary (OS notes app) or just store it in chrome. I trust google (chrome) to keep my passwords safe rather than with some sketchy company I have never heard of (the sketchy company if one of the most reputable cloud based password management company).
- larrybud 4y ago
  > I was telling a middle aged person (50 years) about password managers and were unable to grasp the idea of it. This is more than a little ageist, don’t you think? > Why would you store passwords in cloud based password manager from a company I have never heard of? This is actually a very valid question; hope you didn’t just dismiss it due to “the oldie doesn’t understand.”
  - i67vw3 4y ago
    >This is more than a little ageist, don’t you think? It was not meant in that way, same thing could be said about 20 year old, who have no idea (or unable to grasp) about password manager but more importantly about Authenticator Apps (Micorosft Authenticator, Authy, Aegis). >This is actually a very valid question; hope you didn’t just dismiss it due to “the oldie doesn’t understand.” You are reading my comment from a wrong angle.

makeitdouble 4y ago

> Try explaining a password manager to your nana It's an interesting issue, and wildly varies depending on who manages her devices. For instance if she has an iPhone with a windows computer, a third party manager brings uniformity to how she deals with login on any device she happens to use. Same if she happens to use a Chromebook. Or even if she uses an older Apple device, I'm assuming passkeys won't come to previous OSes, and upgrading a 2018 MBP just to get passkeys would come with a lot of trade-offs. Perhaps I'm seeing it as, it's already a complex mess already, and Apple didn't come with a silver buller to solve all that complexity in one swoop. PS: password managers are fairly straightforward to explain: it's a digital equivalent of the password notebook they keep in the side drawer

BuckRogers 4y ago

Sometimes I wonder how bright nana or papa really is as a result. If you won't dig into even an iPhone's settings to learn what's available, what it can do, good luck to you. That curiosity and willingness to play around, accompanied with Google searches when they don't know what something does, is critical in making it in the world today. Or if you remain a rube, and they will, you'll get scammed someday because you're not on the top of your game mentally. Just lazying it up. I've come to two solutions. Either Bitwarden or KeePass with only a mobile client to begin with. If they are managing that, then I graduate them to clients on multiple systems and the integration advantages that brings. I'm a KeePass Windows and Strongbox Pro user on iOS myself. Prefer to keep that database where I want it. Bitwarden is probably the ticket for most people though. If you start them on mobile only, it helps a lot.

urthor 4y ago
What a ridiculous thing to say. Nana and Papa are not locksmiths. Nana and Papa still deserve to have a front door to their house that can't be lockpicked. Normal people, who have other interests in life than configuring technology, should have secure devices and data from criminals. And they shouldn't have to configure 5 different obscure password managers to do so. Society shouldn't allow criminals to take advantage of Nana and Papa. This is one of the most embarrassing comments I've read on Hackernews.
- BuckRogers 4y ago
  Expecting people to give the minimum of a damn is embarrassing to point out? It's true either way. Sometimes a certain level of complexity can't be abstracted over. This is no longer a fun toy in life. You may have your bank account credentials stolen if you don't wake up and pay attention to what you're looking at. To avoid being lockpicked you only need two-factor. It's that simple. You need some form of password manager, even if it's paper and pencil, until a megacorp handles it all for you. That'll require a universal standard to be adopted, which won't be here soon. The rest of your assertions are assuming a premise that I never stated. Feigning offense on the internet has really gone over the top. Of course people should have secure devices.
  - urthor 4y ago
    I expect people to do their best, within their capabilities. Nana and Papa are not technologically literate enough to perform the kinds of configurations you suggest. In depth custom password manager configuration isn't for them. They are not at fault for that. We simply cannot expect all of humanity to be that technologically literate. There are many, many roles in life that don't involve electronic devices that are immensely valuable. I think that's what I'm deeply offended by. It's not feigned. But I apologize I don't mean to imply you are talking in bad faith. That's out of line. My view is. Engineers cannot expect untrained, ordinary, people in the real world to operate and install complex software. We have a responsibility to provide them with secure devices they can use. Privacy and security from bad actors is a moral right.

whyenot 4y ago

Apple already has a password manager as part of iOS/MacOS. Your passwords sync seamlessly on other Apple devices via iCloud. There is nothing to install. My octogenarian mother uses it daily on her iPad and iMac.

i67vw3 4y ago

Password managers are already pretty easy to use from a nana's perspective. The main problem is that nana does not know that password managers exit itself. Most of them just input password as 'nana1234' and store it in their browser password manager (usually chrome password manager) and use chrome's autofill. Eg., I was telling a middle aged person (50 years) about password managers and were unable to grasp the idea of it. 'Why would you store passwords in cloud based password manager from a company I have never heard of, just type a password and write it down on your diary (OS notes app) or just store it in chrome. I trust google (chrome) to keep my passwords safe rather than with some sketchy company I have never heard of (the sketchy company if one of the most reputable cloud based password management company).

larrybud 4y ago
> I was telling a middle aged person (50 years) about password managers and were unable to grasp the idea of it. This is more than a little ageist, don’t you think? > Why would you store passwords in cloud based password manager from a company I have never heard of? This is actually a very valid question; hope you didn’t just dismiss it due to “the oldie doesn’t understand.”
- i67vw3 4y ago
  >This is more than a little ageist, don’t you think? It was not meant in that way, same thing could be said about 20 year old, who have no idea (or unable to grasp) about password manager but more importantly about Authenticator Apps (Micorosft Authenticator, Authy, Aegis). >This is actually a very valid question; hope you didn’t just dismiss it due to “the oldie doesn’t understand.” You are reading my comment from a wrong angle.