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To those complaining about software instability, lack of support, etc. on anything that is not a Raspberry Pi, here are a few hints: 1. Before purchasing anyth

To those complaining about software instability, lack of support, etc. on anything that is not a Raspberry Pi, here are a few hints: 1. Before purchasing anything, make a list of your hardware needs then find a number of boards that could fulfill them. The (yearly updated) list at Linuxgizmos can help. https://linuxgizmos.com/catalog-of-136-open-spec-community-backed-linux-sbcs-under-200/ https://linuxgizmos.com/catalog-of-136-open-spec-community-b... 2. It is advisable to ignore any software published by the board manufacturer. Unless you spend a lot on LTS hardware (guaranteed, not just labeled as such), many manufacturers will stop releasing/updating their own distro after some time. Just concentrate on the hardware. 3. Now that you have a list, head to armbian.com or dietpi.com and find if your board brand/model is supported. Chances are that it is since those two distributions support a really high number of devices. It might seem odd but it's not; we don't ask Asus or Supermicro to release an operating system for their mainboards, do we? So why we should expect that from SBC manufacturers when there is perfectly good 3rd party support around? https://www.armbian.com/download/?device_support=Supported https://www.armbian.com/download/?device_support=Supported https://dietpi.com/#download https://dietpi.com/#download 4. Find the board that is better supported and you're done. Read also the forums, lots of knowledgeable people over there! Also consider making a well deserved donation to the projects for the hard work involved. For documentation about Allwinner and Rockchip SoCs, some among the most used in low cost boards, refer also to the following pages. https://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page https://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page https://www.rockchip.fr/ https://www.rockchip.fr/

geerlingguy 4y ago
That's still a lot more work than buying a board that has a supported OS... But really, the onus should be on chip makers to work on standardizing chips more (eg targeting SystemReady on ARM), getting their chips supported in Linux, etc. It's a lot of work to support each slightly-different SoC and relying on the community means it's a slow process and usually results in some headline features (like built-in neural engines or GPUs) never gaining support in general Linux distros. Or gaining that support like 3 years after a chip is released, meaning it's practically irrelevant at that point unless you just want to futz around with an older board for hobby purposes. It's not meaningless, but it just rubs me the wrong way seeing how much blood sweat and tears the community puts into these things without much in the way of official help.
- andrewstuart 4y ago
  Hey I watch you on YouTube all the time! You're right though - and it is a mystery to me why these chip makers don't invest heavily in software support. They genuinely seem to not understand the relationship between sales and software support. Espressif is doing well with its esp32 chips because they have built high quality, reliable, comprehensive software support. I won't touch any ARM device now unless its Raspberry Pi. I am somewhat puzzled that it appears to be impossible for any other company to make 100% Raspberry Pi compatible hardware, which would solve the problem.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    > You're right though - and it is a mystery to me why these chip makers don't invest heavily in software support. They genuinely seem to not understand the relationship between sales and software support. I think it's because they target the embedded market. They want to sell not as generic boards but to manufacturers embedding them in their hardware. This way they can charge not only for the components but also for training on the peculiarities of their chips, documentation access, support etc. I think this is the reason why so much ARM stuff is under NDAs.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
Sure these other boards are supported by some distros but nothing beats the raspberry pi community size. This is a huge help trying to get something to work, for examples etc. > Unless you spend a lot on LTS hardware (guaranteed, not just labeled as such), many manufacturers will stop releasing/updating their own distro after some time. Just concentrate on the hardware. Raspberry Pi hardware is LTS, even boards like the pi zero are guaranteed to be manufactured for years to come. Raspbian (now RaspberryPiOS) still runs on the very first pi that was released. > It might seem odd but it's not; we don't ask Asus or Supermicro to release an operating system for their mainboards, do we? So why we should expect that from SBC manufacturers when there is perfectly good 3rd party support around? This is ignoring the problem that ARM boards are much less open than intel ones. There's a lot of NDA-restricted documentation when it comes to things like graphics chips. You don't install Android on your iPhone. Even when these distros support a board, it doesn't mean you can get every feature of it to work. Even the graphics chip of the pi was considered 'closed' for a long time due to NDAs.

geerlingguy 4y ago

That's still a lot more work than buying a board that has a supported OS... But really, the onus should be on chip makers to work on standardizing chips more (eg targeting SystemReady on ARM), getting their chips supported in Linux, etc. It's a lot of work to support each slightly-different SoC and relying on the community means it's a slow process and usually results in some headline features (like built-in neural engines or GPUs) never gaining support in general Linux distros. Or gaining that support like 3 years after a chip is released, meaning it's practically irrelevant at that point unless you just want to futz around with an older board for hobby purposes. It's not meaningless, but it just rubs me the wrong way seeing how much blood sweat and tears the community puts into these things without much in the way of official help.

andrewstuart 4y ago
Hey I watch you on YouTube all the time! You're right though - and it is a mystery to me why these chip makers don't invest heavily in software support. They genuinely seem to not understand the relationship between sales and software support. Espressif is doing well with its esp32 chips because they have built high quality, reliable, comprehensive software support. I won't touch any ARM device now unless its Raspberry Pi. I am somewhat puzzled that it appears to be impossible for any other company to make 100% Raspberry Pi compatible hardware, which would solve the problem.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > You're right though - and it is a mystery to me why these chip makers don't invest heavily in software support. They genuinely seem to not understand the relationship between sales and software support. I think it's because they target the embedded market. They want to sell not as generic boards but to manufacturers embedding them in their hardware. This way they can charge not only for the components but also for training on the peculiarities of their chips, documentation access, support etc. I think this is the reason why so much ARM stuff is under NDAs.

GekkePrutser 4y ago

Sure these other boards are supported by some distros but nothing beats the raspberry pi community size. This is a huge help trying to get something to work, for examples etc. > Unless you spend a lot on LTS hardware (guaranteed, not just labeled as such), many manufacturers will stop releasing/updating their own distro after some time. Just concentrate on the hardware. Raspberry Pi hardware is LTS, even boards like the pi zero are guaranteed to be manufactured for years to come. Raspbian (now RaspberryPiOS) still runs on the very first pi that was released. > It might seem odd but it's not; we don't ask Asus or Supermicro to release an operating system for their mainboards, do we? So why we should expect that from SBC manufacturers when there is perfectly good 3rd party support around? This is ignoring the problem that ARM boards are much less open than intel ones. There's a lot of NDA-restricted documentation when it comes to things like graphics chips. You don't install Android on your iPhone. Even when these distros support a board, it doesn't mean you can get every feature of it to work. Even the graphics chip of the pi was considered 'closed' for a long time due to NDAs.