3 ms·

I don’t disagree that gun legislation is the solution, but the democrats are all but certain to lose in the midterms, so it’s unlikely anything will be passed.

I don’t disagree that gun legislation is the solution, but the democrats are all but certain to lose in the midterms, so it’s unlikely anything will be passed. Mental health records generally are sealed like all medical records. Are you proposing they be accessible? For instance the Virginia tech shooter received mental health care most of his adolescence, bought a gun legally and still committed the worst school shooting to date. My question is around stopping an active shooter once it’s happening.

ok_dad 4y ago
> My question is around stopping an active shooter once it’s happening This is like treating the symptoms, not the disease. Cops should be sufficient for stopping an active shooter, and if they are not then that's their failure. It's society's failure to let it get to that point in the first place.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  Sure, but sometimes you have to treat symptoms. If an active shooter does happen to come to a school they need to be neutralized way faster, not an hour
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    Agree, but we've been trying to treat the symptoms for decades now and it is just getting worse.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    I think you both agree there. How do you make cops that are willing to neutralize them? Clearly more funding, weapons, and power doesn't work.
aerostable_slug 4y ago
Involuntary mental health holds or longer commitments are already included in today's mandated background checks. It's limited to those because we don't want to dissuade people from seeking mental health treatment, especially former military or others who really don't want to be disarmed by the state. In my experience, many people proposing additional gun legislation really have no idea what's been in place in many states and/or the entire country for years (e.g. background checks on almost all gun sales, waiting periods, magazine restrictions, weapon restrictions, etc.). Also, it doesn't help that studies have been done by decidedly anti-gun organizations that show universal background checks do nothing to reduce gun crime and even suicide [0]. The best way to stop an active shooter is obviously to prevent the crime. The next best are trained individuals with firearms, and since time is of the essence you might want them already onsite. We have armed guards for banks even though the money is generally FDIC insured. We have armed guards for cash transfers and even coin pickups from grocery stores. Yeshivas often have armed guards — why can't we harden secular schools? And no, literally no one is saying teachers have to be armed. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1047279718306161 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10472...
- ok_dad 4y ago
  > Yeshivas often have armed guards Awesome, now we're comparing America's problems here to what is effectively an occupied war zone. Perhaps further mental health related laws are a no-go, however reducing the effectiveness of firearms through restrictions on features seems like a no-brainer. Remove the ability for a shooter to pull the trigger more than once per 5+ seconds and require them to concentrate on reloading while their heart is pumping and they are shaking and you will likely reduce the deaths from any one shooting spree.
  - aerostable_slug 4y ago
    Yeshivas in the United States, unless of course you consider Los Angeles or NYC an occupied war zone.

ok_dad 4y ago

> My question is around stopping an active shooter once it’s happening This is like treating the symptoms, not the disease. Cops should be sufficient for stopping an active shooter, and if they are not then that's their failure. It's society's failure to let it get to that point in the first place.

endisneigh 4y ago
Sure, but sometimes you have to treat symptoms. If an active shooter does happen to come to a school they need to be neutralized way faster, not an hour
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Agree, but we've been trying to treat the symptoms for decades now and it is just getting worse.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  I think you both agree there. How do you make cops that are willing to neutralize them? Clearly more funding, weapons, and power doesn't work.

aerostable_slug 4y ago

Involuntary mental health holds or longer commitments are already included in today's mandated background checks. It's limited to those because we don't want to dissuade people from seeking mental health treatment, especially former military or others who really don't want to be disarmed by the state. In my experience, many people proposing additional gun legislation really have no idea what's been in place in many states and/or the entire country for years (e.g. background checks on almost all gun sales, waiting periods, magazine restrictions, weapon restrictions, etc.). Also, it doesn't help that studies have been done by decidedly anti-gun organizations that show universal background checks do nothing to reduce gun crime and even suicide [0]. The best way to stop an active shooter is obviously to prevent the crime. The next best are trained individuals with firearms, and since time is of the essence you might want them already onsite. We have armed guards for banks even though the money is generally FDIC insured. We have armed guards for cash transfers and even coin pickups from grocery stores. Yeshivas often have armed guards — why can't we harden secular schools? And no, literally no one is saying teachers have to be armed. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1047279718306161 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10472...

ok_dad 4y ago
> Yeshivas often have armed guards Awesome, now we're comparing America's problems here to what is effectively an occupied war zone. Perhaps further mental health related laws are a no-go, however reducing the effectiveness of firearms through restrictions on features seems like a no-brainer. Remove the ability for a shooter to pull the trigger more than once per 5+ seconds and require them to concentrate on reloading while their heart is pumping and they are shaking and you will likely reduce the deaths from any one shooting spree.
- aerostable_slug 4y ago
  Yeshivas in the United States, unless of course you consider Los Angeles or NYC an occupied war zone.