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These are all very welcome. I’ll never understand why people don’t want choices and want their tech to be intentionally limited. The flag for web push has been

These are all very welcome. I’ll never understand why people don’t want choices and want their tech to be intentionally limited. The flag for web push has been available, albeit non functional since 15.3. Apple needs to hurry and simply allow for alternative app stores as well.

threeseed 4y ago
Because choices come with consequences. Web push whilst great for developers and some use cases has also meant dealing with spam and user hostile behaviour. I have 50+ websites that I have to block from sending me web push notifications. It's yet another thing making the web less enjoyable. Likewise alternative app stores mean that I will inevitably have dozens of companies to deal with for refunds, subscription cancellations etc. And many of them will be driven by the need to make money from the store and not the interests of end users.
- djbusby 4y ago
  Don't you (and I and typical users) click Block each time a site asks? It's not like you click it 50 times a day or per site (is it?)
  - spartanatreyu 4y ago
    What websites are you going on that ask for notifications that you don't want? I only ever see it on tabloid websites that I accidentally mis-click on or the occasional marketing page.
    - djbusby 4y ago
      Zoom and Meet, Slack ... and all those news ones as well.
      - spartanatreyu 4y ago
        You don't want notifications for your communication services? (Zoom, Meet, Slack, Teams, Discord, Messenger, etc...) Why not? I only have three reasons coming to my mind, and each of them have a nullifying factor: 1. You're already getting the same notifications from the app of the same communication service you have installed. But then why are you viewing the web version of the service? 2. There is at least one channel/room/whatever that has too much noise and would send a lot of notifications. But each of those services has a way to mute notifications per channel/room/whatever. 3. You don't want to be notified between certain times. But isn't that what the do not disturb mode on your device is for? You put in the times you don't want to be notified and it's done. As for "those news ones as well", I've only been asked if I wanted notifications per each news site once and never again since. I'm assuming you might be visiting a news site that's more spammy, but in that case, they're probably not a news source you really want to be following anyway. Edit: Formatting
- smileybarry 4y ago
  And yet I have many, many App Store "apps" that are mere webviews, and the only reason I keep them is because the website can't send me notifications (e.g.: order status). Plus, web notifications means I can scrap all of those "send notifications through me" apps you'd use for scripts, which all ended up costing subscription fees.
deleted 4y ago
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HWR_14 4y ago
> I’ll never understand why people don’t want choices and want their tech to be intentionally limited. Because there's always a limitation. For instance, if I want to go to most websites with Javascript off, they just don't work. That's a limitation. Limiting my tech keeps bad actors from abusing it. Frankly, every feature has good and bad uses, and sometimes the bad outweighs the good. For instance, I have no real good use case for a website accessing my location, camera, motion sensors, etc. Could some apps be developed and served via PWA this way? Sure. But is it far more likely to be used for ad-tech? Also sure. And I say this as someone who made a PWA and cannot deploy it to my own phone because it needs features that aren't supported. A small price to help wall off bad actors. Even though my PWA is only deployed to machines I control and I am not a bad actor to myself.

threeseed 4y ago

Because choices come with consequences. Web push whilst great for developers and some use cases has also meant dealing with spam and user hostile behaviour. I have 50+ websites that I have to block from sending me web push notifications. It's yet another thing making the web less enjoyable. Likewise alternative app stores mean that I will inevitably have dozens of companies to deal with for refunds, subscription cancellations etc. And many of them will be driven by the need to make money from the store and not the interests of end users.

djbusby 4y ago
Don't you (and I and typical users) click Block each time a site asks? It's not like you click it 50 times a day or per site (is it?)
- spartanatreyu 4y ago
  What websites are you going on that ask for notifications that you don't want? I only ever see it on tabloid websites that I accidentally mis-click on or the occasional marketing page.
  - djbusby 4y ago
    Zoom and Meet, Slack ... and all those news ones as well.
    - spartanatreyu 4y ago
      You don't want notifications for your communication services? (Zoom, Meet, Slack, Teams, Discord, Messenger, etc...) Why not? I only have three reasons coming to my mind, and each of them have a nullifying factor: 1. You're already getting the same notifications from the app of the same communication service you have installed. But then why are you viewing the web version of the service? 2. There is at least one channel/room/whatever that has too much noise and would send a lot of notifications. But each of those services has a way to mute notifications per channel/room/whatever. 3. You don't want to be notified between certain times. But isn't that what the do not disturb mode on your device is for? You put in the times you don't want to be notified and it's done. As for "those news ones as well", I've only been asked if I wanted notifications per each news site once and never again since. I'm assuming you might be visiting a news site that's more spammy, but in that case, they're probably not a news source you really want to be following anyway. Edit: Formatting
smileybarry 4y ago
And yet I have many, many App Store "apps" that are mere webviews, and the only reason I keep them is because the website can't send me notifications (e.g.: order status). Plus, web notifications means I can scrap all of those "send notifications through me" apps you'd use for scripts, which all ended up costing subscription fees.

deleted 4y ago

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HWR_14 4y ago

> I’ll never understand why people don’t want choices and want their tech to be intentionally limited. Because there's always a limitation. For instance, if I want to go to most websites with Javascript off, they just don't work. That's a limitation. Limiting my tech keeps bad actors from abusing it. Frankly, every feature has good and bad uses, and sometimes the bad outweighs the good. For instance, I have no real good use case for a website accessing my location, camera, motion sensors, etc. Could some apps be developed and served via PWA this way? Sure. But is it far more likely to be used for ad-tech? Also sure. And I say this as someone who made a PWA and cannot deploy it to my own phone because it needs features that aren't supported. A small price to help wall off bad actors. Even though my PWA is only deployed to machines I control and I am not a bad actor to myself.