4 ms·

> I don't see why not. With M.2 SSDs and DIMM sticks you've got quite a thin minimum footprint. The memory used in Apple laptops is not the same type of memory

> I don't see why not. With M.2 SSDs and DIMM sticks you've got quite a thin minimum footprint. The memory used in Apple laptops is not the same type of memory that you find on a DIMM. The architecture is more like a GPU, with high-speed memory placed as close as possible to the CPU. Nobody complains that they can't upgrade the RAM on their GPU because we all understand the benefits of putting it on the same PCB. Apple did the same with CPUs. > Framework has designed a laptop with some excellent repairability and they're just a small team with extremely limited funds. Tech giants like Apple should have no trouble coming up with similar devices if they actually cared to do so. 99.9% of consumers do not care about upgrading. They wouldn't be opening their laptops and trying to swap out components even if they could. It's not reasonable to expect Apple to compromise the design of their system to cater to the vanishingly small minority of customers who demand such features. For that minority of users, companies like Framework exist to fill the void. However, let's not pretend like the Framework laptop is on par with an M1/M2 Apple laptop in terms of speed, size, power, battery life, or really any other metric beyond ability to swap out parts. They're cool laptops, but Apple's highly integrated products are on a different level entirely.

thefz 4y ago
> The memory used in Apple laptops is not the same type of memory that you find on a DIMM. The architecture is more like a GPU, with high-speed memory placed as close as possible to the CPU. That was a design decision too. It's not that they bought a chip, they made it themselves. > It's not reasonable to expect Apple to compromise the design of their system to cater to the vanishingly small minority of customers who demand such features. I repaired an upgraded dozens of laptops for friends and family, extending their service life for years. Less rare earth in a landfill and more money in the pockets of my acquaintances. The "small minority" is "vanishing" because people are being trated more and more like consumers that throw away the current toy to buy a new one. Companies like Apple are the root cause to this. They want this.
- throw457 4y ago
  They build upon an architecture they knew from their phone socs and arm mobile socs never had dimmable ram. I get your viewpoint but your arguments are null if you look back on how their silicone came to be.
lamontcg 4y ago
> vanishingly small minority of customers who demand such features. I'd love to see apple do an A/B test with a model of, say, their current 15" MBP vs. a modular 15" MBP that made those compromises to get repairability/expandability, and see how the models sold and actually measure the demand. "Nobody is buying them because we don't give anyone the choice, so nobody cares about it" isn't terribly scientific or even market-driven.
jeroenhd 4y ago
Apple's extremely limited specs speak of LPDDR5, which is just standard. They might've chosen to put the controller and power supply from the RAM slots into the CPU and motherboard for reasons, but that's still just a choice. I don't concur on your 99.9%. Consumers don't necessarily think in upgrading, but in my circles people will generally go to some third party computer dealer and ask them "to make it fast again". This usually includes stuffing more RAM or an SSD (if they didn't have one yet) into an older PC, cleaning up some crapware cruft, and unless the CPU was cheap and shitty (i.e. Celeron, Pentium, the castrated i3 in some products like the old macbook Airs) the system will feel fast and responsive again without spending $2k on a new device. With unmaintainable stuff like Apple's these computer stores will have to tell people to buy a new device. This is not a "small minority", it's more like 30-40% of people in my experience. Perhaps maintainability of Apple hardware isn't important because if you've got enough money to buy into the Apple ecosystem you've probably got enough money to buy a new one after three or four years.

thefz 4y ago

> The memory used in Apple laptops is not the same type of memory that you find on a DIMM. The architecture is more like a GPU, with high-speed memory placed as close as possible to the CPU. That was a design decision too. It's not that they bought a chip, they made it themselves. > It's not reasonable to expect Apple to compromise the design of their system to cater to the vanishingly small minority of customers who demand such features. I repaired an upgraded dozens of laptops for friends and family, extending their service life for years. Less rare earth in a landfill and more money in the pockets of my acquaintances. The "small minority" is "vanishing" because people are being trated more and more like consumers that throw away the current toy to buy a new one. Companies like Apple are the root cause to this. They want this.

throw457 4y ago
They build upon an architecture they knew from their phone socs and arm mobile socs never had dimmable ram. I get your viewpoint but your arguments are null if you look back on how their silicone came to be.

lamontcg 4y ago

> vanishingly small minority of customers who demand such features. I'd love to see apple do an A/B test with a model of, say, their current 15" MBP vs. a modular 15" MBP that made those compromises to get repairability/expandability, and see how the models sold and actually measure the demand. "Nobody is buying them because we don't give anyone the choice, so nobody cares about it" isn't terribly scientific or even market-driven.

jeroenhd 4y ago

Apple's extremely limited specs speak of LPDDR5, which is just standard. They might've chosen to put the controller and power supply from the RAM slots into the CPU and motherboard for reasons, but that's still just a choice. I don't concur on your 99.9%. Consumers don't necessarily think in upgrading, but in my circles people will generally go to some third party computer dealer and ask them "to make it fast again". This usually includes stuffing more RAM or an SSD (if they didn't have one yet) into an older PC, cleaning up some crapware cruft, and unless the CPU was cheap and shitty (i.e. Celeron, Pentium, the castrated i3 in some products like the old macbook Airs) the system will feel fast and responsive again without spending $2k on a new device. With unmaintainable stuff like Apple's these computer stores will have to tell people to buy a new device. This is not a "small minority", it's more like 30-40% of people in my experience. Perhaps maintainability of Apple hardware isn't important because if you've got enough money to buy into the Apple ecosystem you've probably got enough money to buy a new one after three or four years.