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This is great news. One of the biggest advantages native apps have had over websites is the ability to send notifications. This difference has disadvantaged i

This is great news. One of the biggest advantages native apps have had over websites is the ability to send notifications. This difference has disadvantaged individuals and companies that find themselves needing to invest in both having a website and a mobile app, and discouraged investment into good web experiences. As websites can finally provide experiences and leverage notifications as well as apps have been able to, I think we’ll see the quality of the web improve considerably.

hbn 4y ago
I think the more likely outcome of this is a bunch more grandmas with 12 ads on their lockscreen at all times because users are so conditioned to click "accept" for every prompt they see just to get it out of the way Web push notifications have basically only been used to make shitty experiences. Random websites sending you ads, every news site you just happened to click to read one article trying to trick you into letting them send notifications for new articles they publish, etc.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  Given that it’s opt in (likely by adding the website to your Home Screen I imagine if the Safari storage expiration is any indication) - how’s this any different than apps spamming you?
  - hbn 4y ago
    Is it going to require you to add the site to your home screen, or is it gonna be like Chrome where you just get an "allow/block" button while browsing around, which all casual users will hit "allow" on because they're trying to get to the content? A website spamming you is very different from an app spamming you. Going to the app store and installing an app takes much more buy-in from a user than just clicking a link. If someone shares a news article from a random site I've never seen before, I might be willing to click it. If that same person told me to install an app to read an article, it's not happening in the first place. I've got a very short list of curated apps I installed on my device. The web is mostly garbage though and most of it shouldn't be sending notifications.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      Given that notifications are not alerts and generally notifications are useful in the context of not being on the page, I’m confident it will require the site to be manually added to the Home Screen. I’d be surprised if it works any other way since safari currently freezes all safari pages other than the active one. Even if that’s not the case though, still dont see how it’s different than app notifications.
  - gjulianm 4y ago
    Apple has far more control over apps notification spam, as they review the apps. They do not review web pages.
- gdeglin 4y ago
  Apple has been refining the iOS notification experience to prevent this from being a problem for apps and I’m sure this will apply to websites too. For example, putting notifications in the scheduled summary or asking users if they want to turn off notifications from an app they haven’t engaged with recently. On the other hand, why should I have to download an app in order to know when I get outbid on eBay or a notification when a package is delivered. Like any messaging channel, not every business is going to use it in a smart way overnight. But I’m confident Apple will put the right guard rails around it, and it will be a welcome replacement to email. Unlike email, web push is privacy friendly, and has standard opt-in and opt-out methods.
  - tuxone 4y ago
    > why should I have to download an app in order to know when I get outbid on eBay or a notification when a package is delivered What’s wrong with prioritized emails? Of course they prefer to send you push notifications via app because it is an additional (and someway less filtered) channel. Once also push notifications will get the same spam inbox filtering system (which iOS already has) then we will all scream for the next channel to be filled of spam (retina displayed popups?)
    - josho 4y ago
      A push is potentially a better experience. You could long press the push notification and the app could increase its bid by 10%. You can't do things like that through email. To your point, maybe we should innovate on email and add these capabilities to email, instead of building apple/android specific push solutions. I'd love to see that, but we don't live in that world.
  - netheril96 4y ago
    Tangential: I’m not satisfied with the existing control of notifications in iOS. I want to allow ebay to notify me when my shipment gets updated but shut up when it wants to advertise. Not possible in the current setup. I have disabled notifications of many apps whose notifications include useful information but also too much garbage.
- spiffytech 4y ago
  > Web push notifications have basically only been used to make shitty experiences This part is a bit chicken-and-egg. If you have to build a mobile app regardless, because iOS doesn't support web push, why invest in web push too? Once this rolls out I anticipate we'll see legitimate use cases in greater numbers, as some new projects realize they don't need to be apps anymore.
  - xbar 4y ago
    I am missing something. Which thing is the egg and which thing is the chicken?
    - spiffytech 4y ago
      I'm thinking, nobody wants web push in iOS because they've never seen a good use case, but no one will deploy a good use case until iOS has web push.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    It's not so much a chicken-and-egg situation (plenty of sites and browsers already support this), the problem is the sheer number of bad eggs. When the feature rolled out in Firefox, I noticed almost every site I visited wanted to send me push notifications. Rather than reject them one by one, I disabled the feature entirely within Firefox.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  Yep. When Firefox added support, I immediately noticed a bunch of sites spamming me with requests to turn on notifications. Rather than reject them one domain at a time, I disabled it entirely in Firefox. The entire feature is essentially useless because of this.
  - lp0_on_fire 4y ago
    It got to the point for a while there where it was like having pop-up ads all over again, except this time the ads were all for the site I was currently reading. This will be abused if it's not opt-in by default (as in I need to specifically enable the feature in the browser before it starts asking me if I want these notifications).
  - vbezhenar 4y ago
    It is not useless for me. I disabled it in Chrome as well, but I can enable it for selected websites. I'm using lots of messengers (discord, telegram, whatsapp, skype) from the browser and notifications are what makes it possible.
babypuncher 4y ago
I'm glad some people are happy about this. I'm just hoping Apple includes an option to automatically opt out of all web notification requests. The fact that every website asks you to accept notifications has rendered the feature useless, since I feel compelled to disable it entirely at the browser level to block those obnoxious pop-up.
enos_feedler 4y ago
I think it is a red herring to see the lack of push notification support on web as some kind of “big” handicap vs native. There are so many advantages that native brings, push notifications is probably in a second tier list (10th+).
- tehbeard 4y ago
  You want to back that up with something more substantial than the 2017 tier list meme format?
  - enos_feedler 4y ago

hbn 4y ago

I think the more likely outcome of this is a bunch more grandmas with 12 ads on their lockscreen at all times because users are so conditioned to click "accept" for every prompt they see just to get it out of the way Web push notifications have basically only been used to make shitty experiences. Random websites sending you ads, every news site you just happened to click to read one article trying to trick you into letting them send notifications for new articles they publish, etc.

endisneigh 4y ago
Given that it’s opt in (likely by adding the website to your Home Screen I imagine if the Safari storage expiration is any indication) - how’s this any different than apps spamming you?
- hbn 4y ago
  Is it going to require you to add the site to your home screen, or is it gonna be like Chrome where you just get an "allow/block" button while browsing around, which all casual users will hit "allow" on because they're trying to get to the content? A website spamming you is very different from an app spamming you. Going to the app store and installing an app takes much more buy-in from a user than just clicking a link. If someone shares a news article from a random site I've never seen before, I might be willing to click it. If that same person told me to install an app to read an article, it's not happening in the first place. I've got a very short list of curated apps I installed on my device. The web is mostly garbage though and most of it shouldn't be sending notifications.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    Given that notifications are not alerts and generally notifications are useful in the context of not being on the page, I’m confident it will require the site to be manually added to the Home Screen. I’d be surprised if it works any other way since safari currently freezes all safari pages other than the active one. Even if that’s not the case though, still dont see how it’s different than app notifications.
- gjulianm 4y ago
  Apple has far more control over apps notification spam, as they review the apps. They do not review web pages.
gdeglin 4y ago
Apple has been refining the iOS notification experience to prevent this from being a problem for apps and I’m sure this will apply to websites too. For example, putting notifications in the scheduled summary or asking users if they want to turn off notifications from an app they haven’t engaged with recently. On the other hand, why should I have to download an app in order to know when I get outbid on eBay or a notification when a package is delivered. Like any messaging channel, not every business is going to use it in a smart way overnight. But I’m confident Apple will put the right guard rails around it, and it will be a welcome replacement to email. Unlike email, web push is privacy friendly, and has standard opt-in and opt-out methods.
- tuxone 4y ago
  > why should I have to download an app in order to know when I get outbid on eBay or a notification when a package is delivered What’s wrong with prioritized emails? Of course they prefer to send you push notifications via app because it is an additional (and someway less filtered) channel. Once also push notifications will get the same spam inbox filtering system (which iOS already has) then we will all scream for the next channel to be filled of spam (retina displayed popups?)
  - josho 4y ago
    A push is potentially a better experience. You could long press the push notification and the app could increase its bid by 10%. You can't do things like that through email. To your point, maybe we should innovate on email and add these capabilities to email, instead of building apple/android specific push solutions. I'd love to see that, but we don't live in that world.
- netheril96 4y ago
  Tangential: I’m not satisfied with the existing control of notifications in iOS. I want to allow ebay to notify me when my shipment gets updated but shut up when it wants to advertise. Not possible in the current setup. I have disabled notifications of many apps whose notifications include useful information but also too much garbage.
spiffytech 4y ago
> Web push notifications have basically only been used to make shitty experiences This part is a bit chicken-and-egg. If you have to build a mobile app regardless, because iOS doesn't support web push, why invest in web push too? Once this rolls out I anticipate we'll see legitimate use cases in greater numbers, as some new projects realize they don't need to be apps anymore.
- xbar 4y ago
  I am missing something. Which thing is the egg and which thing is the chicken?
  - spiffytech 4y ago
    I'm thinking, nobody wants web push in iOS because they've never seen a good use case, but no one will deploy a good use case until iOS has web push.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  It's not so much a chicken-and-egg situation (plenty of sites and browsers already support this), the problem is the sheer number of bad eggs. When the feature rolled out in Firefox, I noticed almost every site I visited wanted to send me push notifications. Rather than reject them one by one, I disabled the feature entirely within Firefox.
babypuncher 4y ago
Yep. When Firefox added support, I immediately noticed a bunch of sites spamming me with requests to turn on notifications. Rather than reject them one domain at a time, I disabled it entirely in Firefox. The entire feature is essentially useless because of this.
- lp0_on_fire 4y ago
  It got to the point for a while there where it was like having pop-up ads all over again, except this time the ads were all for the site I was currently reading. This will be abused if it's not opt-in by default (as in I need to specifically enable the feature in the browser before it starts asking me if I want these notifications).
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  It is not useless for me. I disabled it in Chrome as well, but I can enable it for selected websites. I'm using lots of messengers (discord, telegram, whatsapp, skype) from the browser and notifications are what makes it possible.

babypuncher 4y ago

I'm glad some people are happy about this. I'm just hoping Apple includes an option to automatically opt out of all web notification requests. The fact that every website asks you to accept notifications has rendered the feature useless, since I feel compelled to disable it entirely at the browser level to block those obnoxious pop-up.

enos_feedler 4y ago

I think it is a red herring to see the lack of push notification support on web as some kind of “big” handicap vs native. There are so many advantages that native brings, push notifications is probably in a second tier list (10th+).

tehbeard 4y ago
You want to back that up with something more substantial than the 2017 tier list meme format?
- enos_feedler 4y ago