6 ms·

Create macOS or Linux virtual machines

144 points by hugolundin 4y ago

jldugger 4y ago
I was expecting something more than full machine emulation I guess. But there's no way apple would publish instruction on replacing macOS with Linux.
- homarp 4y ago
  there is https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/ for that...
  - jldugger 4y ago
    Agreed, which is why I found the link to apple.com surprising.
    - ngcc_hk 4y ago
      So do I. I read it totally convinced another ash… linux and then I read the link, it is from apple. Wow.
- dsl 4y ago
  > But there's no way apple would publish instruction on replacing macOS with Linux They support "replacing" macOS with Windows 10. I haven't personally tested it, but I hear Windows 10 ARM even runs on the M1.
  - terramex 4y ago
    Windows 10/11 ARM currently only work in virtual machines, Apple does not provide ARM drivers for Windows like they did for Intel editions.
    - Twisell 4y ago
      To be fair there is no publicly commercialized version of Windows ARM. They only licence OEM. So even if Apple wanted to provide ARM driver they probably couldn't for legal reasons. So why should they bother and who can blame them?
  - ramesh31 4y ago
    >Windows 10 ARM RIP, we hardly knew ye.
usrn 4y ago
This is extremely basic stuff that I would expect any half decent computer to be able to do. I'd be more surprised if it were impossible but I guess this is Apple we're talking about.
- tempay 4y ago
  Getting access to Rosetta for VMs could be a big win as I don’t think it was available previously so you were stuck with much slower QEMU based x86_64 emulation.
gigatexal 4y ago
"We'll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple silicon, and share how you can take advantage of Rosetta 2 to run x86-64 Linux binaries." That sounds like running Linux on bare metal...
- kube-system 4y ago
  Or it is just going to be a video demonstrating this: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_intel_binaries_in_linux_vms_with_rosetta https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
- adrianmonk 4y ago
  It's annoyingly ambiguous. The "on Apple silicon" and "full Linux" strongly suggest it's bare metal. (Why say it that way if it's not?) But the title is "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines", which strongly suggests it's not bare metal. But sometimes people write titles that only hit the biggest highlights, and the title may not mention everything that's in the video, so it's not impossible that it's Mac VMs, Linux VMs, and Linux bare metal.
  - gigatexal 4y ago
    Yeah the vagueness is annoying. They let us run windows via boot camp why not let us run Linux on bare metal? A man can dream. But kudos to the asahi Linux folks — they’re doing amazing work.
tomComb 4y ago
I was very excited, very briefly, by the title of this post. Now very disappointed.
- paraboul 4y ago
  Well, Asahi Linux is a thing
  - buran77 4y ago
    The title and the Apple domain made it look for a second like an officially supported solution to run Linux directly on Apple silicon. This would have been so much more than Asahi Linux. The title should have been "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines" but I guess OP chose something that sounds more attractive and "votable".
    - CodeBeater 4y ago
      Well, not to bash the OP, but a "votable" title does distracts us from a conversation about the actual changes to Mac OS.
      - hugolundin 4y ago
        I might have misinterpreted the session description, but “We’ll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple Silicon” is the sentence that made me post this in the first place. Edit: Also, while I agree that the title sounds click baity, it is a quote from the description, that I wanted to highlight. Using the session title wouldn’t have done that. Guess we’ll see, when the session drops tomorrow.
- olalonde 4y ago
  Opposite reaction here.
  - drusepth 4y ago
    This looks like it's just running Linux VMs as a guest in macOS, right? Was that not already possible on macOS, or just not possible on the M1/M2 chips?
1024core 4y ago
What about Windows? Can I run Windows x86 in a VM on M2?
- ramesh31 4y ago
  Parallels currently supports it, but for whatever reason it's Windows 11 only.
  - lwkl 4y ago
    It's because Windows 10 for ARM doesn't boot on Apple Silicon.
- lynguist 4y ago
  I tried Windows 10 and Windows 11 on a Mac M1 with UTM and Windows 11 with Parallels. I found that Windows 11 ran much better than Windows 10 (it gets stuck) on UTM and I found that Parallels ran much better than UTM. So, I’d say yes.
rvz 4y ago
Before we get too excited by the title of the article which looks too good to offer what you may think it offers, in reality it is still virtualization with in macOS allowing Linux to be run as a guest and not a full installation.
gumby 4y ago
Dang, title should be “Create macOS or Linux virtual machines”
- jonahbenton 4y ago
  Literally "dangit!" and also dang
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dang 4y ago
  Changed now. (Submitted title was "Run full Linux distributions on Apple Silicon")
seemaze 4y ago
I'd love a supported and streamlined option to provision native macOS VM's. Currently other solutions leave much to be desired.
- mort96 4y ago
  UTM doesn't leave that much to be desired does it? I mean something first-party would be nice, but it's not like we're in a terrible state as it is...
jasoneckert 4y ago
Wait... can't we already do this using UTM?!?
karmelapple 4y ago
I'm still keeping my Intel Mac around to run Vagrant nicely with VirtualBox. Will this let me spin up VMs with VirtualBox again on my M1? If so, oh my gosh sign me up right now.
dang 4y ago
Ongoing related thread: Running Intel Binaries in Linux VMs with Rosetta - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 - June 2022 (25 comments)
saagarjha 4y ago
For those wondering what's new, you can now attach a GUI now even if you use the Virtualization framework. Previously you'd have to use the lower-level Hypervisor framework and provide your own framebuffer device.
- ngcc_hk 4y ago
  Somebody has to write a longer and in-depth essay on the basics for us non-system programmer to know what is going on and what is expected. Wsl1 and wsl2 is under stable, like mvs is. Guess Microsoft and IBM are in the same family tree in this aspects. Apple always confuse me. What is this, anyone please.

144 points by hugolundin 4y ago

I was expecting something more than full machine emulation I guess. But there's no way apple would publish instruction on replacing macOS with Linux.

homarp 4y ago
there is https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/ for that...
- jldugger 4y ago
  Agreed, which is why I found the link to apple.com surprising.
  - ngcc_hk 4y ago
    So do I. I read it totally convinced another ash… linux and then I read the link, it is from apple. Wow.
dsl 4y ago
> But there's no way apple would publish instruction on replacing macOS with Linux They support "replacing" macOS with Windows 10. I haven't personally tested it, but I hear Windows 10 ARM even runs on the M1.
- terramex 4y ago
  Windows 10/11 ARM currently only work in virtual machines, Apple does not provide ARM drivers for Windows like they did for Intel editions.
  - Twisell 4y ago
    To be fair there is no publicly commercialized version of Windows ARM. They only licence OEM. So even if Apple wanted to provide ARM driver they probably couldn't for legal reasons. So why should they bother and who can blame them?
- ramesh31 4y ago
  >Windows 10 ARM RIP, we hardly knew ye.

usrn 4y ago

This is extremely basic stuff that I would expect any half decent computer to be able to do. I'd be more surprised if it were impossible but I guess this is Apple we're talking about.

tempay 4y ago
Getting access to Rosetta for VMs could be a big win as I don’t think it was available previously so you were stuck with much slower QEMU based x86_64 emulation.

gigatexal 4y ago

"We'll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple silicon, and share how you can take advantage of Rosetta 2 to run x86-64 Linux binaries." That sounds like running Linux on bare metal...

kube-system 4y ago
Or it is just going to be a video demonstrating this: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_intel_binaries_in_linux_vms_with_rosetta https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
adrianmonk 4y ago
It's annoyingly ambiguous. The "on Apple silicon" and "full Linux" strongly suggest it's bare metal. (Why say it that way if it's not?) But the title is "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines", which strongly suggests it's not bare metal. But sometimes people write titles that only hit the biggest highlights, and the title may not mention everything that's in the video, so it's not impossible that it's Mac VMs, Linux VMs, and Linux bare metal.
- gigatexal 4y ago
  Yeah the vagueness is annoying. They let us run windows via boot camp why not let us run Linux on bare metal? A man can dream. But kudos to the asahi Linux folks — they’re doing amazing work.

tomComb 4y ago

I was very excited, very briefly, by the title of this post. Now very disappointed.

paraboul 4y ago
Well, Asahi Linux is a thing
- buran77 4y ago
  The title and the Apple domain made it look for a second like an officially supported solution to run Linux directly on Apple silicon. This would have been so much more than Asahi Linux. The title should have been "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines" but I guess OP chose something that sounds more attractive and "votable".
  - CodeBeater 4y ago
    Well, not to bash the OP, but a "votable" title does distracts us from a conversation about the actual changes to Mac OS.
    - hugolundin 4y ago
      I might have misinterpreted the session description, but “We’ll also explore how you can install and run full Linux distributions on Apple Silicon” is the sentence that made me post this in the first place. Edit: Also, while I agree that the title sounds click baity, it is a quote from the description, that I wanted to highlight. Using the session title wouldn’t have done that. Guess we’ll see, when the session drops tomorrow.
olalonde 4y ago
Opposite reaction here.
- drusepth 4y ago
  This looks like it's just running Linux VMs as a guest in macOS, right? Was that not already possible on macOS, or just not possible on the M1/M2 chips?

1024core 4y ago

What about Windows? Can I run Windows x86 in a VM on M2?

ramesh31 4y ago
Parallels currently supports it, but for whatever reason it's Windows 11 only.
- lwkl 4y ago
  It's because Windows 10 for ARM doesn't boot on Apple Silicon.
lynguist 4y ago
I tried Windows 10 and Windows 11 on a Mac M1 with UTM and Windows 11 with Parallels. I found that Windows 11 ran much better than Windows 10 (it gets stuck) on UTM and I found that Parallels ran much better than UTM. So, I’d say yes.

rvz 4y ago

Before we get too excited by the title of the article which looks too good to offer what you may think it offers, in reality it is still virtualization with in macOS allowing Linux to be run as a guest and not a full installation.

gumby 4y ago

Dang, title should be “Create macOS or Linux virtual machines”

jonahbenton 4y ago
Literally "dangit!" and also dang
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dang 4y ago
Changed now. (Submitted title was "Run full Linux distributions on Apple Silicon")

seemaze 4y ago

I'd love a supported and streamlined option to provision native macOS VM's. Currently other solutions leave much to be desired.

mort96 4y ago
UTM doesn't leave that much to be desired does it? I mean something first-party would be nice, but it's not like we're in a terrible state as it is...

jasoneckert 4y ago

Wait... can't we already do this using UTM?!?

karmelapple 4y ago

I'm still keeping my Intel Mac around to run Vagrant nicely with VirtualBox. Will this let me spin up VMs with VirtualBox again on my M1? If so, oh my gosh sign me up right now.

dang 4y ago

Ongoing related thread: Running Intel Binaries in Linux VMs with Rosetta - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 - June 2022 (25 comments)

saagarjha 4y ago

For those wondering what's new, you can now attach a GUI now even if you use the Virtualization framework. Previously you'd have to use the lower-level Hypervisor framework and provide your own framebuffer device.

ngcc_hk 4y ago
Somebody has to write a longer and in-depth essay on the basics for us non-system programmer to know what is going on and what is expected. Wsl1 and wsl2 is under stable, like mvs is. Guess Microsoft and IBM are in the same family tree in this aspects. Apple always confuse me. What is this, anyone please.