4 ms·

At risk of Godwinning, let's just say that often the people actively and happily chose things that are very oppressive. And this is were Stallman is coming from

At risk of Godwinning, let's just say that often the people actively and happily chose things that are very oppressive. And this is were Stallman is coming from. He very explicitly understands that people like Apple products (he even says that making things stylish and smooth are positives in this piece). It is because Apple products are so good that Stallman reacts so strongly to them. You and I may disagree with him about how oppressive Apple devices are, but there is definitely a reasonable argument to be made that they are.

mentat 15y ago
It's easier to hold onto principles than to deal with people. If there's anything that makes "tech people" in general outcast it's that. Ironically there's also a tendency to reject other people who strongly hold on to opposing principles, but I guess that makes sense without empathy.
- barrkel 15y ago
  Your first two sentences are contradictory; if holding principles was easier than compromising and dealing with people, then that group would be the majority, and "tech people" would not be "in general outcast" (though I happen to think they aren't). Either that, or you mean something different by "easy" than I think you do. I mean, peer pressure is substantial; it's much easier to stick with the crowd, not stick out, go with the flow, etc. Holding to principles and walking against this tide is hard, not easy. Such people are very much the exception, not the rule.
  - mentat 15y ago
    Easier meaning more simple not easier in terms of effort. Dealing with the complexities and ambiguities of human behavior is more difficult in terms of the processing, both mental and emotional, that must happen. It's easier to say "it's always wrong to lie" then to consider all the situations that might come up in which it may be better to lie.
    - barrkel 15y ago
      For sure, but saying you never lie is much easier than not ever lying, and I think that's what's at issue here. Stallman lives what he preaches, to the point he can be a major PITA (witness the rider thread on HN earlier). That's more than just parroting some principles.
podperson 15y ago
The problem with Stallman is he and I disagree on what the word "oppressive" means. I have no objection to people running FOSS software on their computers, but he objects to my running non-FOSS software on my computer and labels me "oppressed".
- SergeyBrin 15y ago
  no, he objects to not even being able to install foss software on an iphone
  - podperson 15y ago
    I'm sure he objects to that too, but that's not what he says.

mentat 15y ago

It's easier to hold onto principles than to deal with people. If there's anything that makes "tech people" in general outcast it's that. Ironically there's also a tendency to reject other people who strongly hold on to opposing principles, but I guess that makes sense without empathy.

barrkel 15y ago
Your first two sentences are contradictory; if holding principles was easier than compromising and dealing with people, then that group would be the majority, and "tech people" would not be "in general outcast" (though I happen to think they aren't). Either that, or you mean something different by "easy" than I think you do. I mean, peer pressure is substantial; it's much easier to stick with the crowd, not stick out, go with the flow, etc. Holding to principles and walking against this tide is hard, not easy. Such people are very much the exception, not the rule.
- mentat 15y ago
  Easier meaning more simple not easier in terms of effort. Dealing with the complexities and ambiguities of human behavior is more difficult in terms of the processing, both mental and emotional, that must happen. It's easier to say "it's always wrong to lie" then to consider all the situations that might come up in which it may be better to lie.
  - barrkel 15y ago
    For sure, but saying you never lie is much easier than not ever lying, and I think that's what's at issue here. Stallman lives what he preaches, to the point he can be a major PITA (witness the rider thread on HN earlier). That's more than just parroting some principles.

podperson 15y ago

The problem with Stallman is he and I disagree on what the word "oppressive" means. I have no objection to people running FOSS software on their computers, but he objects to my running non-FOSS software on my computer and labels me "oppressed".

SergeyBrin 15y ago
no, he objects to not even being able to install foss software on an iphone
- podperson 15y ago
  I'm sure he objects to that too, but that's not what he says.