4 ms·

That still leaves getting it on the field. Overfertilization is a problem and as mentioned, the plant will require that Nitrogen in proportion to the amount of

by zaarn 4y ago

That still leaves getting it on the field. Overfertilization is a problem and as mentioned, the plant will require that Nitrogen in proportion to the amount of CO2 to even begin to compensate the lack of Nitrogen. With CO2 being 50% higher that means you'd already have to fertilize 50% more to get the same Nitrogen to CO2 ratio as preindustrial levels. And that number isn't going to get better anytime soon. I don't think that adding 50% fertilizer on top of the current fertilization is a solution, overfertilization already causes way to many problems. I've had to stay of the tap water more than once as a child because a farmer didn't follow the fertilization limits.

ben_w 4y ago
> That still leaves getting it on the field. This is a solved problem since the invention of the bucket and pointy stick, when “fertiliser” meant “manure”. > With CO2 being 50% higher that means you'd already have to fertilize 50% more to get the same Nitrogen to CO2 ratio as preindustrial levels. Why do you want to match the air rather than the plant’s actual growth? Plants are limited by a lot of different factors, so while CO2 helps a bit, doubling it doesn’t double the nitrogen use all by itself. > a farmer didn't follow the fertilization limits While this is a real issue, there are many solutions, and worrying about CO2 altering crop yields isn’t one of them.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Not directly, no. But crop yields vary wildly with temperature and temperature is changing on account of CO2.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Absolutely. Thanks for your other comment, I shared a belief with @swader999 that the world was greening, it’s useful that you suggested an alternative hypothesis. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31643970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31643970
- zaarn 4y ago
  Overfertilization is a major issue, there is only so much fertilizer you can put on the field without making next years harvest impossible due to oversalting or damaging root systems. And you can bet farmers are already maxing that out as much as they can on an industrial scale.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    > Overfertilization is a major issue An unrelated issue. That’s important. I have no reason to expect it to get worse. What runs off the fields is necessarily not used by crops. > And you can bet farmers are already maxing that out as much as they can on an industrial scale. I doubt that. All industries, agriculture included, are incentivised to maximise profits. Optimising profit sure isn’t environmentally friendly, but it also doesn’t mean treating fertiliser as a magic potion. A productivity optimised farm looks like this: https://farmingaquaponics.com/aeroponics-vs-hydroponics/ https://farmingaquaponics.com/aeroponics-vs-hydroponics/ That’s pointlessly expensive right now for most crops, so those are fairly limited. Likewise, the economically optimal quantity of fertiliser used by farms is different from the optimal quantity for the health of people living down-river — but that’s just as true regardless of if CO2 is higher or lower than we consider desirable for the general global climate.

by zaarn 4y ago

ben_w 4y ago

> That still leaves getting it on the field. This is a solved problem since the invention of the bucket and pointy stick, when “fertiliser” meant “manure”. > With CO2 being 50% higher that means you'd already have to fertilize 50% more to get the same Nitrogen to CO2 ratio as preindustrial levels. Why do you want to match the air rather than the plant’s actual growth? Plants are limited by a lot of different factors, so while CO2 helps a bit, doubling it doesn’t double the nitrogen use all by itself. > a farmer didn't follow the fertilization limits While this is a real issue, there are many solutions, and worrying about CO2 altering crop yields isn’t one of them.

jacquesm 4y ago
Not directly, no. But crop yields vary wildly with temperature and temperature is changing on account of CO2.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Absolutely. Thanks for your other comment, I shared a belief with @swader999 that the world was greening, it’s useful that you suggested an alternative hypothesis. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31643970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31643970
zaarn 4y ago
Overfertilization is a major issue, there is only so much fertilizer you can put on the field without making next years harvest impossible due to oversalting or damaging root systems. And you can bet farmers are already maxing that out as much as they can on an industrial scale.
- ben_w 4y ago
  > Overfertilization is a major issue An unrelated issue. That’s important. I have no reason to expect it to get worse. What runs off the fields is necessarily not used by crops. > And you can bet farmers are already maxing that out as much as they can on an industrial scale. I doubt that. All industries, agriculture included, are incentivised to maximise profits. Optimising profit sure isn’t environmentally friendly, but it also doesn’t mean treating fertiliser as a magic potion. A productivity optimised farm looks like this: https://farmingaquaponics.com/aeroponics-vs-hydroponics/ https://farmingaquaponics.com/aeroponics-vs-hydroponics/ That’s pointlessly expensive right now for most crops, so those are fairly limited. Likewise, the economically optimal quantity of fertiliser used by farms is different from the optimal quantity for the health of people living down-river — but that’s just as true regardless of if CO2 is higher or lower than we consider desirable for the general global climate.