4 ms·

WSJ is now in the business of selling FUD? This guy...isn't bright. Sorry - it's past time to call out this crap. This is the pathological use case for electric

WSJ is now in the business of selling FUD? This guy...isn't bright. Sorry - it's past time to call out this crap. This is the pathological use case for electric cars. Seriously - you're going on a loooooooooooooooong road trip? Rent a gas car. Your electric car is great for your daily commute and running errands. Also, if you're living in an urban environment, that does the most to reduce pollution and improve air quality. I'm tired of hearing everybody acting like they drive 500 miles daily and there's just no way an electric car would ever work for them. I'm sure that's true for some folks, but not the majority. Just like there are some folks who need to routinely tow heavy loads. An electric truck may not be good for you either. There are most definitely pathological use cases where with today's technology and charging infrastructure an electric vehicle is not a good idea. What's frustrating is it seems those pathological use cases are the only ones anybody talks about. What about commuters? Soccer moms? Urban people running their daily errands? Those are the primary use cases and people need to know how they hold up in these cases. How often do you have to charge? What if you don't have a garage to charge overnight? How does the car handle in snow and ice? These are the things we need to be discussing. I don't really care about the pathological cases.

kalleboo 4y ago
Sorry, reasonable arguments don't drive clicks and engagement
- melling 4y ago
  FOX NEWS ALERT. THE Murdoch's own the Wall Street Journal
gfdgfdgfsdafds 4y ago
>you're going on a loooooooooooooooong road trip? Rent a gas car. May as well fly. Modern jets get better mpg per seat than most cars on the roads in the US (caveat: assuming the plane is mostly full, and the car is single-occupancy). I take it you have a similarly dim view of electric planes.
- taylodl 4y ago
  You piqued my curiosity. The average per-seat fuel efficiency for the major passenger airlines in the U.S. is 59 MPG. If you were traveling as a single occupant in a gas vehicle then it's more fuel efficient to fly. Even two occupants would break even. As far as electric planes are concerned, I don't know much about them. My first thought is airlines would be looking to use them for regional air traffic - where you need to fly from a city that's not one of their hubs to one that is. I'm imagining at this time they're not being considered for trans-national or trans-continental travel - for the same reasons you shouldn't be considering electric vehicles for long road trips.
- antisthenes 4y ago
  Aside from MPG, the benefit is just massive time savings. As well as safety. Last I checked, planes are faster than cars, and time is also worth something (maybe not FUD-writers time, but generally speaking).
sliken 4y ago
Heh, or get a Tesla. I drove from Sacramento to Reno (1100 miles or so), crossed the Sierras and the Rockies (two of the highest mountain ranges in the USA). Did no special prep related to an EV, just got in with family, pushed the listen button, and said "Navigate to Denver, Colorado". Had a dog, kid, and partner with me. Car charged at 550 miles of range per hour, when empty. Generally after everyone got out of the car, got food/snacks, stretched the legs, walked the dog for a tiny walk, etc. Usually we'd wait an extra 10-15 minutes or so for charging. The car was fast, confident at highway speeds, and has a quite nice stereo. I've never nav'd to a supercharger and not been able to charge, which seems to be a quite common experience for others. I think nearly every other review (Ford Mach-E, HD Livewire, and Zero e-motorcycle spring to mind) have charging issues during the review test. Sure it probably added an hour or so to a 17 hour trip, but that's not my normal use case. Waking up each morning with a full (actually I charge to 85% unless I'm planning a big trip) EV is nice. Not having oil changes 3-4 times a year is a bonus as well. In my experience a Tesla is a fine road trip car.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  Same experience here. The takeaway is that Tesla worked tirelessly into making charging (one of the major pain points of EV) as efficient and convenient as possible. And legacy manufacturers are now trying to catch up nearly a decade later (and lamentably failing). If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival. https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136 https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136
  - sliken 4y ago
    Mt Evans (about 30 minutes from my house) became famous for killing Mach-E. Apparently they didn't plan for quite that much regen. It is the highest paved road in North America. I had explored a bit, then did Mt Evans in my model 3, and was worried that I was still climbing and at 45% charge. I was amused to arrive back at my house ... with a 45% charge.
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
cbmuser 4y ago
Why would I spent $50,000 on a car that has less usecases than a used gasline car for $500?
- gfdgfdgfsdafds 4y ago
  I've only recently noticed this, but there are some interesting parallels between the crypto crowd and the EV crowd. First, "it's not the tech, it's a lack of adoption". Now, "obviously that's a dumb use-case for this tech, you're supposed to use it for something else".
  - bcrl 4y ago
    That kinda like the Gnome developers and their search for the Aunt Tilly approved Linux desktop. Screw your existing userbase that was making use of those "legacy" features, go after the one that is perpetually right around the corner that wants none of that.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    Where you went wrong with your "analysis" was assuming I'm in the EV crowd. I do believe in using the right tools for the right job.
    - gfdgfdgfsdafds 4y ago
      Me too. Short journeys = bicycle or public transport, long journeys = rare treat. Shame if you live in a country designed around car transportation.
Volundr 4y ago
> Rent a gas car. Or take a train. A quick check tells me Amtrak has a direct train, and would be infinitely more comfortable.
- wang_li 4y ago
  They need to make trains into land ferries that haul hundreds of EVs from metro area to metro area. You buy your ticket, you drive onto the train, you sit in your car until you have to drive off at your destination.
- choko 4y ago
  Have time to spare? Take a train.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    I mean, it's already faster than driving, and US trains aren't exactly fast. We could do something crazy like invest in high speed rail.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      > We could do something crazy like invest in high speed rail. Ask CAHSR how that’s working out for them…
    - choko 4y ago
      A trip to NYC from my Midwestern town takes literally three times longer as driving. The train is more comfortable, but more expensive and slower.
      - Volundr 4y ago
        Yeah, when I said faster I was talking specifically about the trip taken in the article, not that rail is generally faster than driving (in the US). I don't know where you are located but I doubt you have a direct line to NYC or much of anywhere because US rail coverage sucks currently (this wasn't always true). To be honest if your in the Midwest I'm surprised you have an Amtrak station. Most of us have to take a greyhound for hours to get to one.
eadmund 4y ago
I don't drive 500 miles daily. I don't even drive 500 miles a month. But when I do drive 500+ miles, I would prefer that it be in my own, comfortable car, rather than a rental. I would prefer that if I need to drive that far, I can just hop in and go, without needing to worry about planning for charges or delaying to arrange a rental.

kalleboo 4y ago

Sorry, reasonable arguments don't drive clicks and engagement

melling 4y ago
FOX NEWS ALERT. THE Murdoch's own the Wall Street Journal

gfdgfdgfsdafds 4y ago

>you're going on a loooooooooooooooong road trip? Rent a gas car. May as well fly. Modern jets get better mpg per seat than most cars on the roads in the US (caveat: assuming the plane is mostly full, and the car is single-occupancy). I take it you have a similarly dim view of electric planes.

taylodl 4y ago
You piqued my curiosity. The average per-seat fuel efficiency for the major passenger airlines in the U.S. is 59 MPG. If you were traveling as a single occupant in a gas vehicle then it's more fuel efficient to fly. Even two occupants would break even. As far as electric planes are concerned, I don't know much about them. My first thought is airlines would be looking to use them for regional air traffic - where you need to fly from a city that's not one of their hubs to one that is. I'm imagining at this time they're not being considered for trans-national or trans-continental travel - for the same reasons you shouldn't be considering electric vehicles for long road trips.
antisthenes 4y ago
Aside from MPG, the benefit is just massive time savings. As well as safety. Last I checked, planes are faster than cars, and time is also worth something (maybe not FUD-writers time, but generally speaking).

sliken 4y ago

Heh, or get a Tesla. I drove from Sacramento to Reno (1100 miles or so), crossed the Sierras and the Rockies (two of the highest mountain ranges in the USA). Did no special prep related to an EV, just got in with family, pushed the listen button, and said "Navigate to Denver, Colorado". Had a dog, kid, and partner with me. Car charged at 550 miles of range per hour, when empty. Generally after everyone got out of the car, got food/snacks, stretched the legs, walked the dog for a tiny walk, etc. Usually we'd wait an extra 10-15 minutes or so for charging. The car was fast, confident at highway speeds, and has a quite nice stereo. I've never nav'd to a supercharger and not been able to charge, which seems to be a quite common experience for others. I think nearly every other review (Ford Mach-E, HD Livewire, and Zero e-motorcycle spring to mind) have charging issues during the review test. Sure it probably added an hour or so to a 17 hour trip, but that's not my normal use case. Waking up each morning with a full (actually I charge to 85% unless I'm planning a big trip) EV is nice. Not having oil changes 3-4 times a year is a bonus as well. In my experience a Tesla is a fine road trip car.

908B64B197 4y ago
Same experience here. The takeaway is that Tesla worked tirelessly into making charging (one of the major pain points of EV) as efficient and convenient as possible. And legacy manufacturers are now trying to catch up nearly a decade later (and lamentably failing). If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival. https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136 https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136
- sliken 4y ago
  Mt Evans (about 30 minutes from my house) became famous for killing Mach-E. Apparently they didn't plan for quite that much regen. It is the highest paved road in North America. I had explored a bit, then did Mt Evans in my model 3, and was worried that I was still climbing and at 45% charge. I was amused to arrive back at my house ... with a 45% charge.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago

cbmuser 4y ago

Why would I spent $50,000 on a car that has less usecases than a used gasline car for $500?

gfdgfdgfsdafds 4y ago
I've only recently noticed this, but there are some interesting parallels between the crypto crowd and the EV crowd. First, "it's not the tech, it's a lack of adoption". Now, "obviously that's a dumb use-case for this tech, you're supposed to use it for something else".
- bcrl 4y ago
  That kinda like the Gnome developers and their search for the Aunt Tilly approved Linux desktop. Screw your existing userbase that was making use of those "legacy" features, go after the one that is perpetually right around the corner that wants none of that.
- taylodl 4y ago
  Where you went wrong with your "analysis" was assuming I'm in the EV crowd. I do believe in using the right tools for the right job.
  - gfdgfdgfsdafds 4y ago
    Me too. Short journeys = bicycle or public transport, long journeys = rare treat. Shame if you live in a country designed around car transportation.

Volundr 4y ago

> Rent a gas car. Or take a train. A quick check tells me Amtrak has a direct train, and would be infinitely more comfortable.

wang_li 4y ago
They need to make trains into land ferries that haul hundreds of EVs from metro area to metro area. You buy your ticket, you drive onto the train, you sit in your car until you have to drive off at your destination.
choko 4y ago
Have time to spare? Take a train.
- Volundr 4y ago
  I mean, it's already faster than driving, and US trains aren't exactly fast. We could do something crazy like invest in high speed rail.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    > We could do something crazy like invest in high speed rail. Ask CAHSR how that’s working out for them…
  - choko 4y ago
    A trip to NYC from my Midwestern town takes literally three times longer as driving. The train is more comfortable, but more expensive and slower.
    - Volundr 4y ago
      Yeah, when I said faster I was talking specifically about the trip taken in the article, not that rail is generally faster than driving (in the US). I don't know where you are located but I doubt you have a direct line to NYC or much of anywhere because US rail coverage sucks currently (this wasn't always true). To be honest if your in the Midwest I'm surprised you have an Amtrak station. Most of us have to take a greyhound for hours to get to one.

eadmund 4y ago

I don't drive 500 miles daily. I don't even drive 500 miles a month. But when I do drive 500+ miles, I would prefer that it be in my own, comfortable car, rather than a rental. I would prefer that if I need to drive that far, I can just hop in and go, without needing to worry about planning for charges or delaying to arrange a rental.