4 ms·

How is it opinion when it's logical fact. Dreams have no meaning in the same way the bible has no meaning. You assign the meaning and that can be meaningful to

How is it opinion when it's logical fact. Dreams have no meaning in the same way the bible has no meaning. You assign the meaning and that can be meaningful to you personally, but the dream itself is random.

eternalban 4y ago
Bible or any written text has meaning. Let's say we take the most ungenerous position and consider it as willful psychological manipulation of masses. Does that deprive it of 'meaning', 'agency'? "Logical fact". I missed this bit in your argument. Presumably, you assert that the mind's modalities consist of a 'rational' state of consciousness and a dream state mode where the content matter is "random". It is true that the mind, unfettered by the necessity to navigate in real-time a physical reality, is no longer constrained by either physics or causality. This then results in content matter that can seem random (as narratives) but to deprive them of meaning does not follow. I saw in a dream a table where all elements fell into place as required. Awakening, I immediately wrote it down on a piece of paper, only in one place did a correction later seem necessary. — Mendeleev, as quoted by Inostrantzev As the saying goes, YMMV. /g
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  By meaning I mean the brain isn't trying to communicate anything factual or relevant to you. Same with the bible. The bible is trying to communicate, but it is not a factual piece.
  - eternalban 4y ago
    > By meaning I mean the brain isn't trying to communicate anything factual or relevant to you. That does not map to my experiences with dreams and their content. But then, I -- my conscious self -- do not take an adversarial position regarding my inner Self. I benefit from reflecting on my dreams, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time. Integrating unconscious psychological content of my mind has always been a positive event, and promotes psychological health, stability, maturity, and (believe it or not) insights. YMMV.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      My claim is that you assign meaning without realizing it. So my claim is all the benefits are created by your conscious self, but you perceive it to be from the dream. Similar to how religion helps people. Both are fiction.
      - whitepaint 4y ago
        We almost know nothing about how the brain actually works, so how can you talk about this with such confidence?
        deltaonefour 4y ago
        Simple. I stare at a rock. The rock has no meaning even though I have no idea about the story behind the rock. The burden of proof is always on the person assigning meaning to something. Why? because from a probability standpoint, no meaning is more likely. So the person claiming dreams have meaning must prove why their claim is real despite the low probability. Why is meaning low probability? Because much more things in the universe have no meaning then have meaning. For example, greek mythology. I know nothing of it. Yet I can make the claim that it is false and have a higher probability of being right then the person who claims greek mythology is real and has meaning and knows everything about it. The majority of "meaning" is "found" the same way a christian "finds" meaning in the bible. It is common human behavior. By making a claim that someone has found meaning in some random thing this way, I am making a high probability claim because of the fact the behavior is so common.

eternalban 4y ago

Bible or any written text has meaning. Let's say we take the most ungenerous position and consider it as willful psychological manipulation of masses. Does that deprive it of 'meaning', 'agency'? "Logical fact". I missed this bit in your argument. Presumably, you assert that the mind's modalities consist of a 'rational' state of consciousness and a dream state mode where the content matter is "random". It is true that the mind, unfettered by the necessity to navigate in real-time a physical reality, is no longer constrained by either physics or causality. This then results in content matter that can seem random (as narratives) but to deprive them of meaning does not follow. I saw in a dream a table where all elements fell into place as required. Awakening, I immediately wrote it down on a piece of paper, only in one place did a correction later seem necessary. — Mendeleev, as quoted by Inostrantzev As the saying goes, YMMV. /g

deltaonefour 4y ago
By meaning I mean the brain isn't trying to communicate anything factual or relevant to you. Same with the bible. The bible is trying to communicate, but it is not a factual piece.
- eternalban 4y ago
  > By meaning I mean the brain isn't trying to communicate anything factual or relevant to you. That does not map to my experiences with dreams and their content. But then, I -- my conscious self -- do not take an adversarial position regarding my inner Self. I benefit from reflecting on my dreams, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time. Integrating unconscious psychological content of my mind has always been a positive event, and promotes psychological health, stability, maturity, and (believe it or not) insights. YMMV.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    My claim is that you assign meaning without realizing it. So my claim is all the benefits are created by your conscious self, but you perceive it to be from the dream. Similar to how religion helps people. Both are fiction.
    - whitepaint 4y ago
      We almost know nothing about how the brain actually works, so how can you talk about this with such confidence?
      - deltaonefour 4y ago
        Simple. I stare at a rock. The rock has no meaning even though I have no idea about the story behind the rock. The burden of proof is always on the person assigning meaning to something. Why? because from a probability standpoint, no meaning is more likely. So the person claiming dreams have meaning must prove why their claim is real despite the low probability. Why is meaning low probability? Because much more things in the universe have no meaning then have meaning. For example, greek mythology. I know nothing of it. Yet I can make the claim that it is false and have a higher probability of being right then the person who claims greek mythology is real and has meaning and knows everything about it. The majority of "meaning" is "found" the same way a christian "finds" meaning in the bible. It is common human behavior. By making a claim that someone has found meaning in some random thing this way, I am making a high probability claim because of the fact the behavior is so common.