4 ms·

See: Mozilla Foundation

by aklofas 15y ago

dangrover 15y ago
I thought Mozilla gets most of their money from Google searches, which are not powered by OSS.
- wazoox 15y ago
  Not entirely powered by OSS. Google computers run Linux, many parts of Google infrastructure run on Python, etc.
  - cooldeal 15y ago
    Google got around the spirit of the GPL(there were no web apps when version 2 was written) by never releasing their custom kernel although they profit big time off Linux. The Affero GPL came too late to do any good.
    - wazoox 15y ago
      I'm all for AGPL myself, and this isn't about Google's spirit, but Google is undoubtly "powered by OSS", like it or not. You may label it as "profiteering from OSS" if you want, but you can't entirely throw the baby away with the bath water -- think or Android, Go, etc.
aklofas 15y ago
http://www.technobuffalo.com/internet/how-does-the-mozilla-foundation-make-money/ http://www.technobuffalo.com/internet/how-does-the-mozilla-f... While true, your claim that nobody makes money with open source is false. The classic business model of selling IP doesn't work anymore, but there are other models out there. Mozilla being one of them.
- davidw 15y ago
  I wrote about this a while ago: http://journal.dedasys.com/2007/02/03/in-thrall-to-scarcity http://journal.dedasys.com/2007/02/03/in-thrall-to-scarcity Open Source Software is not a scarce resource: you cannot sell it. Therefore, you have to sell something associated with it - developers' time, the right to integrate it with proprietary software, or things like that.
  - podperson 15y ago
    But in Stallman's world no proprietary software is allowed.
    - davidw 15y ago
      In that sort of world, certain kinds of software would be underproduced. Software by hackers for hackers would probably still exist, but why would you go to the trouble of making something user friendly to sell to people?
      - srdev 15y ago
        As I have an interest in video games, the all-FOSS-no-proprietary approach is particularly troublesome. You see very few indie games being done as FOSS, and pretty much zero high-quality big-production games. Proposals for a system of funding game development in a FOSS-only world are.... iffy at best. At worst, everyone makes MMORPGs.
- cooldeal 15y ago
  >The classic business model of selling IP doesn't work anymore, but there are other models out there. Mozilla being one of them. And iOS will be killed by Android anytime now. Right?
  - aklofas 15y ago
    I'm not saying that, that quote is out of context. I was referring to the classic business model as applied to open source, not in general. As long as there is forced scarcity (FARTS--Forced ARTificial Scarcity) in software, there'll be people making money on it.
    - recoiledsnake 15y ago
      Forced scarcity as in tying Windows 7 to a license and OS X to a Mac device that you need to buy? If "forced scarcity" as you call it is eliminated, the first copy of software, songs, movies, will cost a few billion dollars and the rest will be free. After all, it costs real money to feed the designers and coders.
      - aklofas 15y ago
        I'm not saying that forced scarcity is a bad thing. What I'm trying to say is that, if you take a project/business open source, forced scarcity is no longer a viable strategy (you know, the whole free as in freedom not as in beer thing). There are other strategies, like dual licensing (Trolltech [before nokia]), or consulting (Red Hat), or even (yes) Mozilla with their cross agreements.
cooldeal 15y ago
Not sure how much the devs are paid if any, but the CEO was taking a cool 400K home every year. Their job was to diversify Mozilla so that it wouldn't depend totally on someone that was making a competing product, and utterly failing at that since multiple years. Last I heard, the IRS was investigating them for claiming deductions as a charitable foundation but funneling money to the Mozilla Corporation. They've only recently started concentrating on paying developers to reduce the memory leaks, bloat etc after Chrome started eating their lunch in a big way. How is this a poster child for a good way to develop good and useful software for the masses? In fact, it seems to exemplify the pitfalls and weakness in the model, if nothing else.
- aklofas 15y ago
  I have a couple of friends that work at Mozilla. They are indeed getting paid, have always gotten paid, and (in all likelihoods) will continue getting paid. You are probably referring to the Bugs for Cash thing they did. And a quick google search shows that, yes, mozilla has made good on that too. As for the IRS, they were auditing Mozilla's finances. And since when is there an implicit assumption of guilt in an audit?
- bzbarsky 15y ago
  > Not sure how much the devs are paid if any Well enough that they can hire a few hundred full-time people, apparently, yes? Including some people who should clearly have no shortage of other job offers (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Seward http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Seward ). > Last I heard, the IRS was investigating them The IRS is doing an audit (which is not the same thing as an investigation, by the way). The IRS is also auditing, right this second, Apple, Google, and Microsoft. In fact, last I checked, for companies like Apple or Microsoft they had full-time auditors assigned to them on an ongoing basis. As far as the memory leaks thing... That's a developer-driven project, like many other things at Mozilla. Most developers there are not paid to do a specific task; they're paid to do the right thing. Just like Google doesn't hire you for a particular project, by the way.

See: Mozilla Foundation

by aklofas 15y ago

See: Mozilla Foundation

dangrover 15y ago

I thought Mozilla gets most of their money from Google searches, which are not powered by OSS.

wazoox 15y ago
Not entirely powered by OSS. Google computers run Linux, many parts of Google infrastructure run on Python, etc.
- cooldeal 15y ago
  Google got around the spirit of the GPL(there were no web apps when version 2 was written) by never releasing their custom kernel although they profit big time off Linux. The Affero GPL came too late to do any good.
  - wazoox 15y ago
    I'm all for AGPL myself, and this isn't about Google's spirit, but Google is undoubtly "powered by OSS", like it or not. You may label it as "profiteering from OSS" if you want, but you can't entirely throw the baby away with the bath water -- think or Android, Go, etc.

aklofas 15y ago

http://www.technobuffalo.com/internet/how-does-the-mozilla-foundation-make-money/ http://www.technobuffalo.com/internet/how-does-the-mozilla-f... While true, your claim that nobody makes money with open source is false. The classic business model of selling IP doesn't work anymore, but there are other models out there. Mozilla being one of them.

davidw 15y ago
I wrote about this a while ago: http://journal.dedasys.com/2007/02/03/in-thrall-to-scarcity http://journal.dedasys.com/2007/02/03/in-thrall-to-scarcity Open Source Software is not a scarce resource: you cannot sell it. Therefore, you have to sell something associated with it - developers' time, the right to integrate it with proprietary software, or things like that.
- podperson 15y ago
  But in Stallman's world no proprietary software is allowed.
  - davidw 15y ago
    In that sort of world, certain kinds of software would be underproduced. Software by hackers for hackers would probably still exist, but why would you go to the trouble of making something user friendly to sell to people?
    - srdev 15y ago
      As I have an interest in video games, the all-FOSS-no-proprietary approach is particularly troublesome. You see very few indie games being done as FOSS, and pretty much zero high-quality big-production games. Proposals for a system of funding game development in a FOSS-only world are.... iffy at best. At worst, everyone makes MMORPGs.
cooldeal 15y ago
>The classic business model of selling IP doesn't work anymore, but there are other models out there. Mozilla being one of them. And iOS will be killed by Android anytime now. Right?
- aklofas 15y ago
  I'm not saying that, that quote is out of context. I was referring to the classic business model as applied to open source, not in general. As long as there is forced scarcity (FARTS--Forced ARTificial Scarcity) in software, there'll be people making money on it.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    Forced scarcity as in tying Windows 7 to a license and OS X to a Mac device that you need to buy? If "forced scarcity" as you call it is eliminated, the first copy of software, songs, movies, will cost a few billion dollars and the rest will be free. After all, it costs real money to feed the designers and coders.
    - aklofas 15y ago
      I'm not saying that forced scarcity is a bad thing. What I'm trying to say is that, if you take a project/business open source, forced scarcity is no longer a viable strategy (you know, the whole free as in freedom not as in beer thing). There are other strategies, like dual licensing (Trolltech [before nokia]), or consulting (Red Hat), or even (yes) Mozilla with their cross agreements.

cooldeal 15y ago

Not sure how much the devs are paid if any, but the CEO was taking a cool 400K home every year. Their job was to diversify Mozilla so that it wouldn't depend totally on someone that was making a competing product, and utterly failing at that since multiple years. Last I heard, the IRS was investigating them for claiming deductions as a charitable foundation but funneling money to the Mozilla Corporation. They've only recently started concentrating on paying developers to reduce the memory leaks, bloat etc after Chrome started eating their lunch in a big way. How is this a poster child for a good way to develop good and useful software for the masses? In fact, it seems to exemplify the pitfalls and weakness in the model, if nothing else.

aklofas 15y ago
I have a couple of friends that work at Mozilla. They are indeed getting paid, have always gotten paid, and (in all likelihoods) will continue getting paid. You are probably referring to the Bugs for Cash thing they did. And a quick google search shows that, yes, mozilla has made good on that too. As for the IRS, they were auditing Mozilla's finances. And since when is there an implicit assumption of guilt in an audit?
bzbarsky 15y ago
> Not sure how much the devs are paid if any Well enough that they can hire a few hundred full-time people, apparently, yes? Including some people who should clearly have no shortage of other job offers (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Seward http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Seward ). > Last I heard, the IRS was investigating them The IRS is doing an audit (which is not the same thing as an investigation, by the way). The IRS is also auditing, right this second, Apple, Google, and Microsoft. In fact, last I checked, for companies like Apple or Microsoft they had full-time auditors assigned to them on an ongoing basis. As far as the memory leaks thing... That's a developer-driven project, like many other things at Mozilla. Most developers there are not paid to do a specific task; they're paid to do the right thing. Just like Google doesn't hire you for a particular project, by the way.