4 ms·

the dude was always a toxic bullshitter. it's amazing how people were blinded to this. telsa cars are poor quality garbage, and reflect elon's personality to a

by op00to 4y ago

the dude was always a toxic bullshitter. it's amazing how people were blinded to this. telsa cars are poor quality garbage, and reflect elon's personality to a T. flashy, but under the surface it's all lies and decay.

runevault 4y ago
Creating companies like SpaceX and Tesla, I can see how people would turn a blind eye to his more troublesome traits because he was creating companies that pointed towards the future in the way other billionaires weren't necessarily. Wanting that to be true and good is perfectly understandable, even if it is also incredibly dangerous.
- claaams 4y ago
  He didn't create Tesla. He invested early in someone else's idea.
  - exdsq 4y ago
    I'm the OP of the comment this thread was responding too, talking about how I dislike Musk, but I'd still say he was the driving force of Tesla in that it was a close-to-bankrupt company that is unrecognisable of the company you see today. Same with the whole idea he's only rich because his dad is - Zip2 and Paypal were huge acquisitions that dwarf his fathers net worth back then, and having wealth is in no way a guarantee you'll > 1000x that amount.
    - op00to 4y ago
      Not having wealth is a guarantee you won’t 1000x.
      - exdsq 4y ago
        What nonsense. How many business owners in the US immigrated with basically zero and made > $1m? How many startup founders have come from disadvantaged backgrounds and exited/got acquired? How many first-gen college grads got into good schools and ended up firmly in the upper-middle class (US based, that is?). It's far easier to 1000x when you have little than when you have a good amount. Just look at the number of millionaires compared to billionaires.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    He did create Tesla. He went to AC Propulsion and tried to form a company with them but they weren't interested and instead directed him to two guys who had incorporation papers and nothing else. He then funded 90% of the Series A round when there were only the two "founders". He was involved with the company from that point forward.
    - FireBeyond 4y ago
      > instead directed him to two guys who had incorporation papers and nothing else That's not true. They were already working on a proprietary motor that would go on to become the basis of the Tesla motor. They got Series A funding from Musk and other sources (though Musk was the largest funder) at the start of 2004. He also wasn't really involved in day to day ops, but provided "vision" for the Roadster from 2007 onwards - that's when he became more involved.
      - mlindner 4y ago
        Do you have a source on what they were doing before Series A? I didn't start paying close attention personally until around the time the Model S started getting close to production. I've never heard anything about a "proprietary motor".
  - zionic 4y ago
    False, he's a cofounder. Tesla had no cars and no customers before Elon.
aceon48 4y ago
Disagree my Tesla is the best car I’ve ever had
- delusional 4y ago
  Did you pay significantly more for it than any other car you've ever owned?
- op00to 4y ago
  How’s FSD working out for you? Lucky enough to not kill anyone lately?
rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
>We expect the 2022 Model 3 will have about average reliability when compared to the average new car. This prediction is based on data from 2019, 2020 and 2021 models. Select the used car model year to see reported issues with those similar past models. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reliability/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reli...
- herbstein 4y ago
  A lot of new cars are cheaper than a Tesla. How are their reliability compared to their competition price-wise?
- op00to 4y ago
  “We expect”. Rather than expecting, let’s look at what CR says about Tesla. Consumer Reports states that Tesla’s Model 3 has average reliability. The Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems. The Model X and Model S have body hardware, climate system, and in-car electronics problems. All three models are well below average. https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/ https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reli...
mlindner 4y ago
He's never been a toxic bullshitter. He aims big, and gives dates with lots of caveats/uncertainties attached to them (that the media never reports). In a recent interview he stated a great statement "At SpaceX we specialize in converting the impossible into the late" which is a nice truthism about all of his companies. Tesla cars are quite reliable but their unreliability is over reported giving the perception of a higher unreliability than is actually the case.
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  > and gives dates with lots of caveats/uncertainties attached to them (that the media never reports) When is FSD coming? According to Musk, he's said every year for the last seven years running that it is coming "this year" or "months away", and the only "caveat" he's ever mentioned is "subject to regulatory approval", and that is clearly factually incorrect. FSD is not, and certainly was not "complete but for legal approvals". Unless you have some other explanation for what "You will be able to drive coast to coast, with zero driver interventions, this year". At some point repeatedly "aiming big" becomes a caricature, and then eventually seen for the BS/hype it is.
  - mettamage 4y ago
    > At some point repeatedly "aiming big" becomes a caricature, and then eventually seen for the BS/hype it is. I disagree. There are different incentives at play. I'll list the few I see. When does FSD come? You can't say stuff like "10 years out". That'd be a hard sell in academia and an even harder sell in business. Moreover, Tesla is trying to move as fast as possible. The other issue is that they have to give a deadline estimate. As we all know, the business world cannot operate without any deadline estimates. So Elon gives them. If it sounds vaguely familiar to software engineering that's because it's the same misaligned incentive at play here, but then at a larger scale. Also, he aimed big, and some of those big aims actually became reality. Isn't it the case with R&D and innovation that you have to fail a lot? It isn't easy. So now we're in a situation where there are people that demand: whatever Tesla decides to innovate on must be a success and accurately estimated time-wise. No organization in the world has ever been able to do that, so to expect that is a fool's errand, IMO.

by op00to 4y ago

runevault 4y ago

Creating companies like SpaceX and Tesla, I can see how people would turn a blind eye to his more troublesome traits because he was creating companies that pointed towards the future in the way other billionaires weren't necessarily. Wanting that to be true and good is perfectly understandable, even if it is also incredibly dangerous.

claaams 4y ago
He didn't create Tesla. He invested early in someone else's idea.
- exdsq 4y ago
  I'm the OP of the comment this thread was responding too, talking about how I dislike Musk, but I'd still say he was the driving force of Tesla in that it was a close-to-bankrupt company that is unrecognisable of the company you see today. Same with the whole idea he's only rich because his dad is - Zip2 and Paypal were huge acquisitions that dwarf his fathers net worth back then, and having wealth is in no way a guarantee you'll > 1000x that amount.
  - op00to 4y ago
    Not having wealth is a guarantee you won’t 1000x.
    - exdsq 4y ago
      What nonsense. How many business owners in the US immigrated with basically zero and made > $1m? How many startup founders have come from disadvantaged backgrounds and exited/got acquired? How many first-gen college grads got into good schools and ended up firmly in the upper-middle class (US based, that is?). It's far easier to 1000x when you have little than when you have a good amount. Just look at the number of millionaires compared to billionaires.
- mlindner 4y ago
  He did create Tesla. He went to AC Propulsion and tried to form a company with them but they weren't interested and instead directed him to two guys who had incorporation papers and nothing else. He then funded 90% of the Series A round when there were only the two "founders". He was involved with the company from that point forward.
  - FireBeyond 4y ago
    > instead directed him to two guys who had incorporation papers and nothing else That's not true. They were already working on a proprietary motor that would go on to become the basis of the Tesla motor. They got Series A funding from Musk and other sources (though Musk was the largest funder) at the start of 2004. He also wasn't really involved in day to day ops, but provided "vision" for the Roadster from 2007 onwards - that's when he became more involved.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      Do you have a source on what they were doing before Series A? I didn't start paying close attention personally until around the time the Model S started getting close to production. I've never heard anything about a "proprietary motor".
- zionic 4y ago
  False, he's a cofounder. Tesla had no cars and no customers before Elon.

aceon48 4y ago

Disagree my Tesla is the best car I’ve ever had

delusional 4y ago
Did you pay significantly more for it than any other car you've ever owned?
op00to 4y ago
How’s FSD working out for you? Lucky enough to not kill anyone lately?

rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago

>We expect the 2022 Model 3 will have about average reliability when compared to the average new car. This prediction is based on data from 2019, 2020 and 2021 models. Select the used car model year to see reported issues with those similar past models. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reliability/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reli...

herbstein 4y ago
A lot of new cars are cheaper than a Tesla. How are their reliability compared to their competition price-wise?
op00to 4y ago
“We expect”. Rather than expecting, let’s look at what CR says about Tesla. Consumer Reports states that Tesla’s Model 3 has average reliability. The Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems. The Model X and Model S have body hardware, climate system, and in-car electronics problems. All three models are well below average. https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/ https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reli...

mlindner 4y ago

He's never been a toxic bullshitter. He aims big, and gives dates with lots of caveats/uncertainties attached to them (that the media never reports). In a recent interview he stated a great statement "At SpaceX we specialize in converting the impossible into the late" which is a nice truthism about all of his companies. Tesla cars are quite reliable but their unreliability is over reported giving the perception of a higher unreliability than is actually the case.

FireBeyond 4y ago
> and gives dates with lots of caveats/uncertainties attached to them (that the media never reports) When is FSD coming? According to Musk, he's said every year for the last seven years running that it is coming "this year" or "months away", and the only "caveat" he's ever mentioned is "subject to regulatory approval", and that is clearly factually incorrect. FSD is not, and certainly was not "complete but for legal approvals". Unless you have some other explanation for what "You will be able to drive coast to coast, with zero driver interventions, this year". At some point repeatedly "aiming big" becomes a caricature, and then eventually seen for the BS/hype it is.
- mettamage 4y ago
  > At some point repeatedly "aiming big" becomes a caricature, and then eventually seen for the BS/hype it is. I disagree. There are different incentives at play. I'll list the few I see. When does FSD come? You can't say stuff like "10 years out". That'd be a hard sell in academia and an even harder sell in business. Moreover, Tesla is trying to move as fast as possible. The other issue is that they have to give a deadline estimate. As we all know, the business world cannot operate without any deadline estimates. So Elon gives them. If it sounds vaguely familiar to software engineering that's because it's the same misaligned incentive at play here, but then at a larger scale. Also, he aimed big, and some of those big aims actually became reality. Isn't it the case with R&D and innovation that you have to fail a lot? It isn't easy. So now we're in a situation where there are people that demand: whatever Tesla decides to innovate on must be a success and accurately estimated time-wise. No organization in the world has ever been able to do that, so to expect that is a fool's errand, IMO.