4 ms·

The identity goes even deeper than this. You're talking to a country of people that had it so bad wherever they were originally, that they decided to uproot eve

The identity goes even deeper than this. You're talking to a country of people that had it so bad wherever they were originally, that they decided to uproot everything they could carry and start a completely new life. Some are first generations of this today, while many are only two to three generations away from that source. Our indigenous people also carry this identity because the ones remaining know the ultimate face of evil and carry on under that load. These are very, very different psyches of people. The subtleties show up in all elements of the current prevailing culture, and what is truly happening right now is the war between those that remember how bad it was and can be, and those who experienced life with a completely new set of pains outside the horrors of the bottom of hierarchy of needs. To tie this back to the climate and culture of the US, having gone through two major hurricanes in the gulf region, I can tell you the mindset of everyone is 'so what.' You lose your house, all possessions, and have $500 in your bank account with 4 kids -- but you are not alone, every single person around you, rich or poor is going through some chaos. Every single person is reaching out to help you clear your road, cook food for you, keep the kids together -- (first hand account). So in these communities, a big scary 'climate change' event is already happening, and they are pulling through just fine. They live in unconscious safety because they have direct evidence that their community has their back - and life continues on happily until someone comes with a shaking finger to say, 'you really need to stop everything you're doing and fight climate change.'

arethuza 4y ago
Who pays for the reconstruction costs after these events - isn't there a frequency of events when things simply becomes unsustainable and people migrate (like the Okies and the Dust Bowl)?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  Many insurance companies have gone under, and those left, have left the region. Natural consequences are taking their toll. So you will see many migrations from this region - but I don't believe any of it will make these people say, "I must stop what I am doing and fight climate change." They will just adapt and endure.
cableshaft 4y ago
While I'm willing to accept that I may lose my home and possessions to a natural disaster or accident (like a fire), I really would rather not if at all possible. Sure I'd survive, but it'd still suck (also survival is not guaranteed either, Hurricane Katrina killed 1833 people back in 2005, for example). The only real risk around here is tornadoes (and we did have one touch down within 5 miles of us just last year, damaged a couple hundred homes, uprooted some trees, and rendered 20 homes unlivable). From a recent article, some of the people with damaged homes are still dealing with it six months later, and some homes just have tarps where a couple of their walls were, still (it was already hard to hire people even before the tornado struck, also they had issues getting insurance to approve things). I wouldn't want to willingly move to even more likelihood of problems, like near a beach in the Gulf Coast or Arizona (which is about to have severe water problems soon as Lake Mead upstream is drying up fast).
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  > Sure I'd survive, but it'd still suck (also survival is not guaranteed either, Hurricane Katrina killed 1833 people back in 2005, for example). Yep, exactly the point! And look at the adaptive community response to Hurricane Katrina and recent flooding events: the Cajun Navy. All I'm saying is telling this type of voter to ignore their lives and change their lifestyle, when they adapt in pretty incredible ways - is going to be a hard sell.
enragedcacti 4y ago
From my perspective this sounds like a great story with very little evidence to back it up. Look to South Texas as a counter example. There is a high percentage of immigrants, a high risk of disastrous impacts from climate change, and massively higher support for government intervention than other parts of the region, some counties even beating out Austin. Looking at the maps it seems much more likely that the obvious thing is true, this is an issue driven almost entirely by political identity with a side helping of how badly you might actually feel the effects. I get that a grand narrative of people pulling together feels nice, but if it isn't true its just a waste of time. https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us/ https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/yc...
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  It sounds like you haven't seen this experience first hand, that's ok. The lack of direct experience doesn't make my first hand accounts of repeated experience a grand narrative that isn't true though.
  - enragedcacti 4y ago
    > The lack of direct experience doesn't make my first hand accounts of repeated experience a grand narrative that isn't true though. Of course not, but anecdotal evidence contradicting empirical evidence without a convincing explanation is usually a pretty good sign.
    - anonymouse008 4y ago
      Predictive value: usually a pretty good sign Willing to wager something meaningful on that? ;D!
TomSwirly 4y ago
So let me get this straight. The climate emergency will devastate crops all over the world, render parts of it simply unlivable, but you believe that Americans, with their "very, very different psyches" and the "culture of the US", will simply band together, "rich or poor", and "live in safety"? If it weren't the case that people with the same false-to-the-fact beliefs were setting policy through America, your beliefs could simply be ignored by the polite, but as it is, it's simply tragic and rather horrifying.
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  Yes, I'm very much pointing to the reasoning why the logical argument to think and do something about climate change is not heard in these areas, and specifically with the US leadership. Every culture has their myths, so I encourage you to learn about the Cajun Navy (just one of the many from the gulf region). Making a change requires acknowledging and accepting that many of the US populace will not respond well to the incredulity of their direct lives.
- supertrope 4y ago
  The ongoing pandemic demonstrates that we have neither US Government preparation nor grassroots social organization to be resilient in the face of crisis. At least we have enough military firepower to shoot at a problem. That side of national risk management is well funded.

arethuza 4y ago

Who pays for the reconstruction costs after these events - isn't there a frequency of events when things simply becomes unsustainable and people migrate (like the Okies and the Dust Bowl)?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
anonymouse008 4y ago
Many insurance companies have gone under, and those left, have left the region. Natural consequences are taking their toll. So you will see many migrations from this region - but I don't believe any of it will make these people say, "I must stop what I am doing and fight climate change." They will just adapt and endure.

cableshaft 4y ago

While I'm willing to accept that I may lose my home and possessions to a natural disaster or accident (like a fire), I really would rather not if at all possible. Sure I'd survive, but it'd still suck (also survival is not guaranteed either, Hurricane Katrina killed 1833 people back in 2005, for example). The only real risk around here is tornadoes (and we did have one touch down within 5 miles of us just last year, damaged a couple hundred homes, uprooted some trees, and rendered 20 homes unlivable). From a recent article, some of the people with damaged homes are still dealing with it six months later, and some homes just have tarps where a couple of their walls were, still (it was already hard to hire people even before the tornado struck, also they had issues getting insurance to approve things). I wouldn't want to willingly move to even more likelihood of problems, like near a beach in the Gulf Coast or Arizona (which is about to have severe water problems soon as Lake Mead upstream is drying up fast).

anonymouse008 4y ago
> Sure I'd survive, but it'd still suck (also survival is not guaranteed either, Hurricane Katrina killed 1833 people back in 2005, for example). Yep, exactly the point! And look at the adaptive community response to Hurricane Katrina and recent flooding events: the Cajun Navy. All I'm saying is telling this type of voter to ignore their lives and change their lifestyle, when they adapt in pretty incredible ways - is going to be a hard sell.

enragedcacti 4y ago

From my perspective this sounds like a great story with very little evidence to back it up. Look to South Texas as a counter example. There is a high percentage of immigrants, a high risk of disastrous impacts from climate change, and massively higher support for government intervention than other parts of the region, some counties even beating out Austin. Looking at the maps it seems much more likely that the obvious thing is true, this is an issue driven almost entirely by political identity with a side helping of how badly you might actually feel the effects. I get that a grand narrative of people pulling together feels nice, but if it isn't true its just a waste of time. https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us/ https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/yc...

anonymouse008 4y ago
It sounds like you haven't seen this experience first hand, that's ok. The lack of direct experience doesn't make my first hand accounts of repeated experience a grand narrative that isn't true though.
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  > The lack of direct experience doesn't make my first hand accounts of repeated experience a grand narrative that isn't true though. Of course not, but anecdotal evidence contradicting empirical evidence without a convincing explanation is usually a pretty good sign.
  - anonymouse008 4y ago
    Predictive value: usually a pretty good sign Willing to wager something meaningful on that? ;D!

TomSwirly 4y ago

So let me get this straight. The climate emergency will devastate crops all over the world, render parts of it simply unlivable, but you believe that Americans, with their "very, very different psyches" and the "culture of the US", will simply band together, "rich or poor", and "live in safety"? If it weren't the case that people with the same false-to-the-fact beliefs were setting policy through America, your beliefs could simply be ignored by the polite, but as it is, it's simply tragic and rather horrifying.

anonymouse008 4y ago
Yes, I'm very much pointing to the reasoning why the logical argument to think and do something about climate change is not heard in these areas, and specifically with the US leadership. Every culture has their myths, so I encourage you to learn about the Cajun Navy (just one of the many from the gulf region). Making a change requires acknowledging and accepting that many of the US populace will not respond well to the incredulity of their direct lives.
supertrope 4y ago
The ongoing pandemic demonstrates that we have neither US Government preparation nor grassroots social organization to be resilient in the face of crisis. At least we have enough military firepower to shoot at a problem. That side of national risk management is well funded.