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Producing the battery takes a LOT more energy, and the electricity is MOST LIKELY not carbon free, so total creation and operation CO2 output EXCEEDS the CO2 ou

Producing the battery takes a LOT more energy, and the electricity is MOST LIKELY not carbon free, so total creation and operation CO2 output EXCEEDS the CO2 output from the gasoline truck over most of its lifetime. Maybe we should provide (edit: sourced) data to back up our claims.

heretogetout 4y ago
The person you're replying to did provide data, albeit without sources. Do you have data showing that these trucks result in higher CO2 emissions?
CyanBird 4y ago
> EXCEEDS the CO2 output from the gasoline truck over most of its lifetime. The combustion of a gas plant or of a coal plant is more efficient than the combustion happening in a internal combustion engine, a turbine on a gas power plant can reach 44 to 60%[1] , a thermal plant 33% to 49%, an internal gasoline combustion engine tops at 35% in an idealized state, which real performance between 20 and 29% Unless you have got strong metrics which quantitatively show this to be true, then it is not a claim that can be spouted easily [1] http://needtoknow.nas.edu/energy/energy-sources/fossil-fuels/natural-gas/ http://needtoknow.nas.edu/energy/energy-sources/fossil-fuels... [2] https://www.williamson.edu/2018/05/the-most-efficient-thermal-power-generation-plants-in-america/ https://www.williamson.edu/2018/05/the-most-efficient-therma...
bryanlarsen 4y ago
If you're demanding numbers, where are yours? They're easy to find. gasoline truck: 1/15 gallons per mile * 17 pounds CO2 / gallon = 1.1 pounds/mile electric truck: 0.5 kWh per mile * 0.8 pounds CO2 / kWh = 0.4 pounds / mile That 0.8 pounds CO2/kWh number is the US average from 2020. It's predicted to halve by 2025. And I didn't include the numbers for drilling, refining and transporting the gasoline used, which are massive, and increase the 1.1 pounds/mile figure by at least 40%.
TomSwirly 4y ago
- tejohnso 4y ago
  > Every claim you make is false Every claim I made is not false. For example I said "electricity is MOST LIKELY not carbon free". If that were false, then are you suggesting that most electricity is carbon free? Are we only talking about vehicles operating in Costa Rica or something? I think it is easy to verify that your statement is incorrect. The comment I was responding to was one sided and without sourced information. I provided an argument for the other side without sourced information as well. I'm not sure that anything I said is wildly false, and I thought it would provide balance. If you're curious, have a look at this TedX [talk]. I just happened across it yesterday so those arguments were top of mind. It's another example of a whole bunch of "facts" being presented with no source so I don't give it much weight but it's a good presentation. [talk]: https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk

heretogetout 4y ago

The person you're replying to did provide data, albeit without sources. Do you have data showing that these trucks result in higher CO2 emissions?

CyanBird 4y ago

> EXCEEDS the CO2 output from the gasoline truck over most of its lifetime. The combustion of a gas plant or of a coal plant is more efficient than the combustion happening in a internal combustion engine, a turbine on a gas power plant can reach 44 to 60%[1] , a thermal plant 33% to 49%, an internal gasoline combustion engine tops at 35% in an idealized state, which real performance between 20 and 29% Unless you have got strong metrics which quantitatively show this to be true, then it is not a claim that can be spouted easily [1] http://needtoknow.nas.edu/energy/energy-sources/fossil-fuels/natural-gas/ http://needtoknow.nas.edu/energy/energy-sources/fossil-fuels... [2] https://www.williamson.edu/2018/05/the-most-efficient-thermal-power-generation-plants-in-america/ https://www.williamson.edu/2018/05/the-most-efficient-therma...

bryanlarsen 4y ago

If you're demanding numbers, where are yours? They're easy to find. gasoline truck: 1/15 gallons per mile * 17 pounds CO2 / gallon = 1.1 pounds/mile electric truck: 0.5 kWh per mile * 0.8 pounds CO2 / kWh = 0.4 pounds / mile That 0.8 pounds CO2/kWh number is the US average from 2020. It's predicted to halve by 2025. And I didn't include the numbers for drilling, refining and transporting the gasoline used, which are massive, and increase the 1.1 pounds/mile figure by at least 40%.

TomSwirly 4y ago

tejohnso 4y ago
> Every claim you make is false Every claim I made is not false. For example I said "electricity is MOST LIKELY not carbon free". If that were false, then are you suggesting that most electricity is carbon free? Are we only talking about vehicles operating in Costa Rica or something? I think it is easy to verify that your statement is incorrect. The comment I was responding to was one sided and without sourced information. I provided an argument for the other side without sourced information as well. I'm not sure that anything I said is wildly false, and I thought it would provide balance. If you're curious, have a look at this TedX [talk]. I just happened across it yesterday so those arguments were top of mind. It's another example of a whole bunch of "facts" being presented with no source so I don't give it much weight but it's a good presentation. [talk]: https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk