5 ms·

> wifi display Can this ever be performant enough? I feel like even the tiniest amount of lag would be unbearable.

ajconway 4y ago
Of course, people stream VR games over wifi: https://www.theverge.com/22218827/oculus-quest-2-wireless-pc-vr-games-how-to https://www.theverge.com/22218827/oculus-quest-2-wireless-pc...
- wlesieutre 4y ago
  But does that work in a crowded office building with everyone doing it?
  - lynndotpy 4y ago
    A direct connection with 5GHz WiFi would be ideal and realistic. (And, coming up, WiFi 6E and the 6GHz band.) Contention on 2.4GHz is the main concern I think
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Even on 5GHz, your office router would quickly run out of bandwidth. A compressed 1080p stream is like 40mbps, so even if nobody in the office is using a HiDPI display, you'd connect maybe 5 or 6 displays before hitting some serious local congestion. You might be able to resolve it over ethernet, but if 'wireless' is the name of the game, then I'd suggest looking elsewhere.
      - ac29 4y ago
        A high quality 1080P video stream is more like 5-10Mbps, and a typical desktop use case is going to be much, much more compressible.
      - Maursault 4y ago
        > A compressed 1080p stream I was thinking more along the lines of 1024x768. Non-power users. And if it was an Apple enviro, the display would be a computer, and the connection would be vnc or nx.
      - wlesieutre 4y ago
        They did say "direct" so the router wouldn't be a concern https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-direct https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-direct
        swinglock 4y ago
        "Direct" Wi-Fi still shares the same spectrum though, so even without central points it's not equivalent to cables.
        wlesieutre 4y ago
        Right, that's the part of it I'm worried about in a crowded building
        bee_rider 4y ago
        But it is a fundamentally different type of problem. Going through a router imposes hard bandwidth limitations at a central point. With direct wifi, each monitor only needs to serve a single user, so the devices can be lower powered -- the broadcast only needs to serve ~a single desk. And they are centrally controlled by the IT department, so unlike a wifi router the in RF mad-max anarchy zone that is a modern apartment building, there shouldn't be concerns about noisy neighbors. I'm not sure there's a point to all this -- the phone being used as a computer is probably going to be plugged in, so why not push everything through USB-C/thunderbolt nowadays? -- but it is almost certainly possible.
        swinglock 4y ago
        The difference between sharing limited spectrum and AP resources in a room and only sharing limited spectrum resources in a room are not a fundamentally different problems. In addition you'd have loads of noisy neighbors, at least everyone close by in the room. I agree the phone ought to be plugged in anyway. Even if it could survive a full day of being your workstation, you wouldn't want a half dead or worse battery at the end of your work day, and regularly draining a significant amount while stationary unnecessarily shortens the total battery lifespan. In addition, if docked into something with a bit of active cooling, the phone could perform better and once again preserve the battery.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I've used 3 different wireless VR implementations before, all of them require absurd amounts of bandwidth (50-130mbps), and send a highly-compressed image. It looks worse depending on the display you're using; on the OLED display of the Quest, the image ended up looking particularly terrible. Even with proper display stream compression, I doubt you could build a network robust enough to host more than 2 or 3 wireless monitors on one network.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    VR required like 90fps at something >1080p, right? Office work is fine with 30fps (can realistically drop lower). Also I suspect office workloads should be compressed more easily (think of a next editor -- lots of white-space, only a couple characters changing from frame to frame). And peer-to-peer rather than through the router would probably be the way to go. Since 5GHz drops off pretty quickly, it might be possible to exploit this if people aren't packed in too tightly. Which gives a nice, hard technological backing to requests not to be crammed in too tightly.
_ea1k 4y ago
Its probably quick enough now, but tbh, I'd rather it just run over USB-C. Maybe then it could keep the phone charged up at the same time too.
narrator 4y ago
Just leave a single dongle with a bunch of ports at the office. You need to plug in the power anyway and it's simpler than pairing.

Of course, people stream VR games over wifi: https://www.theverge.com/22218827/oculus-quest-2-wireless-pc-vr-games-how-to https://www.theverge.com/22218827/oculus-quest-2-wireless-pc...

wlesieutre 4y ago
But does that work in a crowded office building with everyone doing it?
- lynndotpy 4y ago
  A direct connection with 5GHz WiFi would be ideal and realistic. (And, coming up, WiFi 6E and the 6GHz band.) Contention on 2.4GHz is the main concern I think
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Even on 5GHz, your office router would quickly run out of bandwidth. A compressed 1080p stream is like 40mbps, so even if nobody in the office is using a HiDPI display, you'd connect maybe 5 or 6 displays before hitting some serious local congestion. You might be able to resolve it over ethernet, but if 'wireless' is the name of the game, then I'd suggest looking elsewhere.
    - ac29 4y ago
      A high quality 1080P video stream is more like 5-10Mbps, and a typical desktop use case is going to be much, much more compressible.
    - Maursault 4y ago
      > A compressed 1080p stream I was thinking more along the lines of 1024x768. Non-power users. And if it was an Apple enviro, the display would be a computer, and the connection would be vnc or nx.
    - wlesieutre 4y ago
      They did say "direct" so the router wouldn't be a concern https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-direct https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-direct
      - swinglock 4y ago
        "Direct" Wi-Fi still shares the same spectrum though, so even without central points it's not equivalent to cables.
        wlesieutre 4y ago
        Right, that's the part of it I'm worried about in a crowded building
        bee_rider 4y ago
        But it is a fundamentally different type of problem. Going through a router imposes hard bandwidth limitations at a central point. With direct wifi, each monitor only needs to serve a single user, so the devices can be lower powered -- the broadcast only needs to serve ~a single desk. And they are centrally controlled by the IT department, so unlike a wifi router the in RF mad-max anarchy zone that is a modern apartment building, there shouldn't be concerns about noisy neighbors. I'm not sure there's a point to all this -- the phone being used as a computer is probably going to be plugged in, so why not push everything through USB-C/thunderbolt nowadays? -- but it is almost certainly possible.
        swinglock 4y ago
        The difference between sharing limited spectrum and AP resources in a room and only sharing limited spectrum resources in a room are not a fundamentally different problems. In addition you'd have loads of noisy neighbors, at least everyone close by in the room. I agree the phone ought to be plugged in anyway. Even if it could survive a full day of being your workstation, you wouldn't want a half dead or worse battery at the end of your work day, and regularly draining a significant amount while stationary unnecessarily shortens the total battery lifespan. In addition, if docked into something with a bit of active cooling, the phone could perform better and once again preserve the battery.
smoldesu 4y ago
I've used 3 different wireless VR implementations before, all of them require absurd amounts of bandwidth (50-130mbps), and send a highly-compressed image. It looks worse depending on the display you're using; on the OLED display of the Quest, the image ended up looking particularly terrible. Even with proper display stream compression, I doubt you could build a network robust enough to host more than 2 or 3 wireless monitors on one network.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  VR required like 90fps at something >1080p, right? Office work is fine with 30fps (can realistically drop lower). Also I suspect office workloads should be compressed more easily (think of a next editor -- lots of white-space, only a couple characters changing from frame to frame). And peer-to-peer rather than through the router would probably be the way to go. Since 5GHz drops off pretty quickly, it might be possible to exploit this if people aren't packed in too tightly. Which gives a nice, hard technological backing to requests not to be crammed in too tightly.

_ea1k 4y ago

Its probably quick enough now, but tbh, I'd rather it just run over USB-C. Maybe then it could keep the phone charged up at the same time too.

narrator 4y ago

Just leave a single dongle with a bunch of ports at the office. You need to plug in the power anyway and it's simpler than pairing.