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What seems to be happening in the past 5 years is BigTech aggressively pushing into education. Get them hooked young. A sixth form (high-school) headmaster pro

What seems to be happening in the past 5 years is BigTech aggressively pushing into education. Get them hooked young. A sixth form (high-school) headmaster proudly told me how his school was not under the thumb of Microsoft, because his was a "Google Academy". I have no idea what that even means by the way - other than that money changed hands in a back room deal. Kids may not be told expressly "You must use Vendor X", but network effects and non-interoperability will pressure them in subtle ways. This is exacerbated when teachers ask students to submit course-work via proprietary vendor platforms. A departure from open standards and neutral tools, toward monopoly proprietary suppliers is obviously unacceptable in education. But the rationale, as always, is economic, and against a background of deskilling of educational ICT. Wherever I get to choose tools and direct students I pick the most universal, accessible, free and open source software I can.

urthor 4y ago
It's also. Schools just plain old don't have much money. Big tech has an advantage going into schools because schools LOVE end to end contracts that do everything. No other vendors but Google and Microsoft are willing to fight over schools, because the margin is too low. Google and Microsoft however will, because they are vertical enough they can absorb the low margin.
- cestith 4y ago
  They're willing to do this at low margin, zero margin, or potentially at a small loss. It's not just because they can absorb it. It's because mindshare is real. Having schoolchildren trained in your technology is a loss leader for the workplace contracts you're seeking from everyone from the corner store to the Fortune 500 companies.
rvense 4y ago
The startup I work for in Scandinavia sells to education customers. As far as I understand, all schools here are either "Microsoft schools" or "Google schools".
- wiz21c 4y ago
  And now all our kids are being tracked at school too. And in 20 years, their profiles will alter their "choices" of career because some HR will have access to it. The problem is not to use the tool, the problem is that the schools forces it upon kids (because the teachers can't learn all the available tools -- which is understandable) What a wonderful world.
samatman 4y ago
This was Apple Computer's corporate strategy before the Macintosh was even introduced. Something relevant might have happened five years ago but it wasn't 'Big Tech ... pushing into education', that strategy is older than most people posting on this site.
- jheriko 4y ago
  i remember this from my time at school, some 25 years ago now, and it was extremely unhelpful to education as well... a lot of time spent explaining things like "how do i do something where i would normally right click?" or that the power button is this weird thing on the keyboard without the universal symbol for a power button on it... once they got some wintel machines from RM, another company that pushed at education, all of that went away and the lessons started becoming genuinely educational.
  - samatman 4y ago
    Looking at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_keyboards#Twentieth_Anniversary_Macintosh_Keyboard_(M3459) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_keyboards#Twentieth_Anni... I see models with a power button, clearly labeled with the ISO standard symbol for a power button, and models with no power button, because it moved back to the case (and used the ISO standard symbol on it). By the time I was 13 I had used mice on four different GUIs so I have trouble sympathizing with your difficulty. User interfaces aren't facts of nature, which is a great learning opportunity to have in school. But learning opportunities must be taken.
    - JonathonW 4y ago
      Apple didn't use the IEC power symbol on their keyboards until the iMac-- prior keyboards used a left-pointing triangle on the power button. But most of these machines shipped in an era where there wasn't necessarily any standardization of how to turn the machine on in the PC-compatible world either-- the now-standard momentary electronic switch on the front of the case came with the ATX spec in 1995. Before that, you'd usually have a flip switch or latching power button somewhere on the case. (Macs were unusual for the era in having power on the keyboard from the ADB keyboard on.)
Gigachad 4y ago
I don't see what's wrong with this. Microsoft and Google are paying to educate people on their products. There is nothing inherently evil about Office or Google Docs. There is no lock in contract, and it isn't that hard to switch later. And the schools/students benefit from a cheaper education than if they had to pay full price.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  > Microsoft and Google are paying to educate people on their products. That was 1990. Now Microsoft and Google are paying to educate people on their values. That is different. Children having their educational horizons limited, curated, monitored and nudged by a few corporations is the problem here. > There is no lock in contract You've read them all? All of them? > and it isn't that hard to switch later. No this is plain wrong. Any IT person will tell you that migrating from one vendor to another is a nightmare. Getting too deeply into a relationship with one vendor is always a business mistake. > And the schools/students benefit from a cheaper education than if they had to pay full price. Another way of looking at that is since the vendor sets the price on am essentially zero cost service, subsidising one sector is an anti-competitive behaviour. But that is not the point. Students should get the best education possible, not the cheapest. Corporate McEducations are why we're falling behind against nations like China who are quite happy to use our better products (Linux etc) to teach timeless principles instead of transient products to their students.
- starkd 4y ago
  It gets harder to change such habits the older you get. Not so much in terms of ability. They can change, but it's less likely they want to take the time to do so. They know this, that's why it's important to target the young demographic, because it primes the growth for decades to come. At least, in a probabilistic sense.
vidarh 4y ago
It's funny to see this described as something new, because things used to be far worse in this regard. That's not to say it's not still a problem, but it's not a new problem.
chrisseaton 4y ago
How can you get ‘hooked’ on a basic free text editor that works like all other text editors? I don’t get the intensity of your problem with it?
mr_gibbins 4y ago
We are given AWS technologies inside specially-provisioned sandboxes to teach at the university, and the courses are marketed and badged as AWS. Students get free training, certification discounts and more. No money changes hands, but AWS provide all the tech free, sponsor AWS awards for the students, come to jobs fairs... all the while hoping that X% of those compsci students will, in the fullness of time, come to be decision-makers who choose AWS technologies for their organisations rather than Microsoft or Google. It's the Happy Meal principle, hard at work today.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > No money changes hands, but AWS provide all the tech free, sponsor AWS awards for the students, come to jobs fairs… all the while hoping that X% of those compsci students will, in the fullness of time, come to be decision-makers who choose AWS technologies for their organisations rather than Microsoft or Google. They don’t need that, though that’s a bonus. A surplus of technologists skilled in AWS technologies, means that its easier to hire if you are looking for AWS than it would otherwise be, so it tips the scales for the decision-makers well before any of the students become decision-makers.

urthor 4y ago

It's also. Schools just plain old don't have much money. Big tech has an advantage going into schools because schools LOVE end to end contracts that do everything. No other vendors but Google and Microsoft are willing to fight over schools, because the margin is too low. Google and Microsoft however will, because they are vertical enough they can absorb the low margin.

cestith 4y ago
They're willing to do this at low margin, zero margin, or potentially at a small loss. It's not just because they can absorb it. It's because mindshare is real. Having schoolchildren trained in your technology is a loss leader for the workplace contracts you're seeking from everyone from the corner store to the Fortune 500 companies.

rvense 4y ago

The startup I work for in Scandinavia sells to education customers. As far as I understand, all schools here are either "Microsoft schools" or "Google schools".

wiz21c 4y ago
And now all our kids are being tracked at school too. And in 20 years, their profiles will alter their "choices" of career because some HR will have access to it. The problem is not to use the tool, the problem is that the schools forces it upon kids (because the teachers can't learn all the available tools -- which is understandable) What a wonderful world.

samatman 4y ago

This was Apple Computer's corporate strategy before the Macintosh was even introduced. Something relevant might have happened five years ago but it wasn't 'Big Tech ... pushing into education', that strategy is older than most people posting on this site.

jheriko 4y ago
i remember this from my time at school, some 25 years ago now, and it was extremely unhelpful to education as well... a lot of time spent explaining things like "how do i do something where i would normally right click?" or that the power button is this weird thing on the keyboard without the universal symbol for a power button on it... once they got some wintel machines from RM, another company that pushed at education, all of that went away and the lessons started becoming genuinely educational.
- samatman 4y ago
  Looking at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_keyboards#Twentieth_Anniversary_Macintosh_Keyboard_(M3459) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_keyboards#Twentieth_Anni... I see models with a power button, clearly labeled with the ISO standard symbol for a power button, and models with no power button, because it moved back to the case (and used the ISO standard symbol on it). By the time I was 13 I had used mice on four different GUIs so I have trouble sympathizing with your difficulty. User interfaces aren't facts of nature, which is a great learning opportunity to have in school. But learning opportunities must be taken.
  - JonathonW 4y ago
    Apple didn't use the IEC power symbol on their keyboards until the iMac-- prior keyboards used a left-pointing triangle on the power button. But most of these machines shipped in an era where there wasn't necessarily any standardization of how to turn the machine on in the PC-compatible world either-- the now-standard momentary electronic switch on the front of the case came with the ATX spec in 1995. Before that, you'd usually have a flip switch or latching power button somewhere on the case. (Macs were unusual for the era in having power on the keyboard from the ADB keyboard on.)

Gigachad 4y ago

I don't see what's wrong with this. Microsoft and Google are paying to educate people on their products. There is nothing inherently evil about Office or Google Docs. There is no lock in contract, and it isn't that hard to switch later. And the schools/students benefit from a cheaper education than if they had to pay full price.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
> Microsoft and Google are paying to educate people on their products. That was 1990. Now Microsoft and Google are paying to educate people on their values. That is different. Children having their educational horizons limited, curated, monitored and nudged by a few corporations is the problem here. > There is no lock in contract You've read them all? All of them? > and it isn't that hard to switch later. No this is plain wrong. Any IT person will tell you that migrating from one vendor to another is a nightmare. Getting too deeply into a relationship with one vendor is always a business mistake. > And the schools/students benefit from a cheaper education than if they had to pay full price. Another way of looking at that is since the vendor sets the price on am essentially zero cost service, subsidising one sector is an anti-competitive behaviour. But that is not the point. Students should get the best education possible, not the cheapest. Corporate McEducations are why we're falling behind against nations like China who are quite happy to use our better products (Linux etc) to teach timeless principles instead of transient products to their students.
starkd 4y ago
It gets harder to change such habits the older you get. Not so much in terms of ability. They can change, but it's less likely they want to take the time to do so. They know this, that's why it's important to target the young demographic, because it primes the growth for decades to come. At least, in a probabilistic sense.

vidarh 4y ago

It's funny to see this described as something new, because things used to be far worse in this regard. That's not to say it's not still a problem, but it's not a new problem.

chrisseaton 4y ago

How can you get ‘hooked’ on a basic free text editor that works like all other text editors? I don’t get the intensity of your problem with it?

mr_gibbins 4y ago

We are given AWS technologies inside specially-provisioned sandboxes to teach at the university, and the courses are marketed and badged as AWS. Students get free training, certification discounts and more. No money changes hands, but AWS provide all the tech free, sponsor AWS awards for the students, come to jobs fairs... all the while hoping that X% of those compsci students will, in the fullness of time, come to be decision-makers who choose AWS technologies for their organisations rather than Microsoft or Google. It's the Happy Meal principle, hard at work today.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> No money changes hands, but AWS provide all the tech free, sponsor AWS awards for the students, come to jobs fairs… all the while hoping that X% of those compsci students will, in the fullness of time, come to be decision-makers who choose AWS technologies for their organisations rather than Microsoft or Google. They don’t need that, though that’s a bonus. A surplus of technologists skilled in AWS technologies, means that its easier to hire if you are looking for AWS than it would otherwise be, so it tips the scales for the decision-makers well before any of the students become decision-makers.