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Wow... I'm not equally blaming the Ukrainian president as he is not equally guilty. This is a fact morally (attacking is worse than defending) as well as practi

Wow... I'm not equally blaming the Ukrainian president as he is not equally guilty. This is a fact morally (attacking is worse than defending) as well as practically (surrendering would not stop Putin from killing). And what was Zelenskyi's crime again? Putin's is genocide.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
> Putin's is genocide I'm not defending Putin, but how is the Ukraine war genocide? Not all wars are genocides.
- tuukkah 4y ago
  I don't know if you're missing facts about what is happening in Ukraine, or if you don't see how those events fit the concept of genocide. In short: what is happening in Ukraine is not a normal war. Putin says his motive is to protect Russian-speakers, create a Russian empire of a single ethnicity and "undo" Ukraine as a nation. He dehumanizes Ukrainians. He removes the Ukrainian language from the areas he captures such as Donbas. He has abducted hundreds of Ukrainian children. While he "protects" Russian speakers, he commands his troops to kill Ukrainian civilians in masses. I don't know which authority you might believe as substitute of your own eyes, but here's the pope: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/05/03/pope-seeks-putin-meeting-and-compares-russian-brutality-to-rwandan-genocide/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/05/03/pope-seeks... Here's CNN: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/27/europe/russia-ukraine-genocide-warning-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/27/europe/russia-ukraine-gen...
  - dukeofdoom 4y ago
    I'm not sure if you realize, but you are getting a highly framed version of events. Just be aware how biased your sources are. Imagine if Canada decided to get out of NATO to join up with China. Overthrew a pro US friendly democratic government. Chinese BioLabs started popping up all over. Made it public that they want Chinese missiles within firing rang of US cities. And ethnic cleansing of US citizens was going on for a few years. Judging by the "Shock and Awe" strategy employed on Iraq, I don't think America would be anywhere near as constrained under same circumstances. My bet is they America would bomb the shit out of Canada. Putin has been somewhat restrained, willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of his soldiers to spare the cities from bombing. This is not a pro Russia post. More like "War is a Racket" and there are people that want to prolong this conflict. And it goes deeper than that. Ever since Putin imprisoned some US connected oligarchs, the US strategy has been to get rid of Putin. This war is culminating result of years of wrong headed US foreign policy. "Wrong headed" in the sense that Russians will not become some economic neo-colonial state of the West.
sacrosancty 4y ago
I'm also not defending Putin, but simply as a matter of killing people, Ukraine has the power to prevent that by not fighting, even if it comes at the cost of losing their existence as a country separate from Russia. That could certainly be a bad thing in other ways, but you expressed concern for people killed in the war, not grander moral rights and wrongs.
- tuukkah 4y ago
  Like I already said, surrendering does not stop Putin from killing.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago

> Putin's is genocide I'm not defending Putin, but how is the Ukraine war genocide? Not all wars are genocides.

tuukkah 4y ago
I don't know if you're missing facts about what is happening in Ukraine, or if you don't see how those events fit the concept of genocide. In short: what is happening in Ukraine is not a normal war. Putin says his motive is to protect Russian-speakers, create a Russian empire of a single ethnicity and "undo" Ukraine as a nation. He dehumanizes Ukrainians. He removes the Ukrainian language from the areas he captures such as Donbas. He has abducted hundreds of Ukrainian children. While he "protects" Russian speakers, he commands his troops to kill Ukrainian civilians in masses. I don't know which authority you might believe as substitute of your own eyes, but here's the pope: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/05/03/pope-seeks-putin-meeting-and-compares-russian-brutality-to-rwandan-genocide/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/05/03/pope-seeks... Here's CNN: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/27/europe/russia-ukraine-genocide-warning-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/27/europe/russia-ukraine-gen...
- dukeofdoom 4y ago
  I'm not sure if you realize, but you are getting a highly framed version of events. Just be aware how biased your sources are. Imagine if Canada decided to get out of NATO to join up with China. Overthrew a pro US friendly democratic government. Chinese BioLabs started popping up all over. Made it public that they want Chinese missiles within firing rang of US cities. And ethnic cleansing of US citizens was going on for a few years. Judging by the "Shock and Awe" strategy employed on Iraq, I don't think America would be anywhere near as constrained under same circumstances. My bet is they America would bomb the shit out of Canada. Putin has been somewhat restrained, willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of his soldiers to spare the cities from bombing. This is not a pro Russia post. More like "War is a Racket" and there are people that want to prolong this conflict. And it goes deeper than that. Ever since Putin imprisoned some US connected oligarchs, the US strategy has been to get rid of Putin. This war is culminating result of years of wrong headed US foreign policy. "Wrong headed" in the sense that Russians will not become some economic neo-colonial state of the West.

sacrosancty 4y ago

I'm also not defending Putin, but simply as a matter of killing people, Ukraine has the power to prevent that by not fighting, even if it comes at the cost of losing their existence as a country separate from Russia. That could certainly be a bad thing in other ways, but you expressed concern for people killed in the war, not grander moral rights and wrongs.

tuukkah 4y ago
Like I already said, surrendering does not stop Putin from killing.