4 ms·

I'm not positive that a hybrid is actually that much more complicated than a traditional drive train with an engine + automatic transmission.

SoftTalker 4y ago
It isn't. There's a transfer case between the electric drive and the gasoline engine. It's not that complicated, basically a planetary gear mechanism, and is pretty rugged and trouble-free.
yumraj 4y ago
Exactly. In fact hybrid is easier on the ICE since it takes a lot of load while starting the car and during acceleration. So, they, IMHO, have longer life than just ICE cars.
toast0 4y ago
Agreeing with others, it might be less complicated. With the generally accepted drive train (pioneered by Toyota, and adopted by everyone else), there's two electric motors instead of one, but the gearing between the engine, the two motors, and the output shaft is fixed. There's no transmission actuators to break (other than the park pawl, but that's pretty simple). You can still have problems of course, Ford messed up something on early HF35 transmissions and many of them have bearings fail, leading to a short service life (mine was covered under warranty, so now I've got a new transmission).
- fomine3 4y ago
  Is THS-like hybrid system now common? For Japanese manufacturers, only Toyota uses THS-like system. AFAIK Germans too. I've researched past for my curiosity, but it seems that parallel-hybrid is more common for worldwide. Chrysler Pacifica also looks like THS-like. I wish manufacturers open how system work. This article covers well (Japanese but figures are English so not block machine translation). https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%96%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%83%89%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84%E3%82%92%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A8%E3%82%81%E3%81%9F/ https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E...
  - Gibbon1 4y ago
    I found is also somewhat hard to get good info on these systems. It's colored by knowing they are five/six axis machines[1] where you have one or more motors controlling an axis. A three axis machine is a triangle. Think three linkages pinned. Not very interesting. But a four axis machine is a simple gear train like you have with most battery powered cars. A five axis machine requires two inputs to define the motion of the remaining free axis. Far as I can tell that's what the original Toyota's used. Engine + Motor1 on one input. M2 on the ring gear. Drive shaft is the remaining. Lot of different ways to skin that cat and they can look mechanically very different.
  - toast0 4y ago
    I thought Honda mostly switched to THS-like sometime mid 200x? I know their early stuff wasn't and you could get a manual transmission Honda Civic Hybrid, but I had rwad that they switched. Looks like Hyundai/Kia aren't though. And I wasn't able to get a good read on a lot of them. I guess I over generalized from Toyota, Honda, Ford, and Chrysler.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      AFAIK there's no THS-like Honda cars. Nissan and Mazda bought THS system from Toyota and sold small amount of cars only once.
      - toast0 4y ago
        I mean, this[1] sounds like THS, mostly. I don't think THS (or Ford) use any clutches though. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15121345/honda-accord-plug-in-hybrid-prototype-drive-review/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15121345/honda-accord-...
        fomine3 4y ago
        It's just early i-MMD (basically series-hybrid, but also can drive directly by engine on highway) system, according to PR, despite they said "eCVT". It's confusing. They called two motor(generator) connected via electricity (but not connected mechanically) as "eCVT". It uses clutch to switch direct drive on highway. https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2013/4130620eng-accord.html https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2013/4130620eng-accord.ht...

SoftTalker 4y ago

It isn't. There's a transfer case between the electric drive and the gasoline engine. It's not that complicated, basically a planetary gear mechanism, and is pretty rugged and trouble-free.

yumraj 4y ago

Exactly. In fact hybrid is easier on the ICE since it takes a lot of load while starting the car and during acceleration. So, they, IMHO, have longer life than just ICE cars.

toast0 4y ago

Agreeing with others, it might be less complicated. With the generally accepted drive train (pioneered by Toyota, and adopted by everyone else), there's two electric motors instead of one, but the gearing between the engine, the two motors, and the output shaft is fixed. There's no transmission actuators to break (other than the park pawl, but that's pretty simple). You can still have problems of course, Ford messed up something on early HF35 transmissions and many of them have bearings fail, leading to a short service life (mine was covered under warranty, so now I've got a new transmission).

fomine3 4y ago
Is THS-like hybrid system now common? For Japanese manufacturers, only Toyota uses THS-like system. AFAIK Germans too. I've researched past for my curiosity, but it seems that parallel-hybrid is more common for worldwide. Chrysler Pacifica also looks like THS-like. I wish manufacturers open how system work. This article covers well (Japanese but figures are English so not block machine translation). https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%96%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%83%89%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84%E3%82%92%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A8%E3%82%81%E3%81%9F/ https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E...
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  I found is also somewhat hard to get good info on these systems. It's colored by knowing they are five/six axis machines[1] where you have one or more motors controlling an axis. A three axis machine is a triangle. Think three linkages pinned. Not very interesting. But a four axis machine is a simple gear train like you have with most battery powered cars. A five axis machine requires two inputs to define the motion of the remaining free axis. Far as I can tell that's what the original Toyota's used. Engine + Motor1 on one input. M2 on the ring gear. Drive shaft is the remaining. Lot of different ways to skin that cat and they can look mechanically very different.
- toast0 4y ago
  I thought Honda mostly switched to THS-like sometime mid 200x? I know their early stuff wasn't and you could get a manual transmission Honda Civic Hybrid, but I had rwad that they switched. Looks like Hyundai/Kia aren't though. And I wasn't able to get a good read on a lot of them. I guess I over generalized from Toyota, Honda, Ford, and Chrysler.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    AFAIK there's no THS-like Honda cars. Nissan and Mazda bought THS system from Toyota and sold small amount of cars only once.
    - toast0 4y ago
      I mean, this[1] sounds like THS, mostly. I don't think THS (or Ford) use any clutches though. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15121345/honda-accord-plug-in-hybrid-prototype-drive-review/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15121345/honda-accord-...
      - fomine3 4y ago
        It's just early i-MMD (basically series-hybrid, but also can drive directly by engine on highway) system, according to PR, despite they said "eCVT". It's confusing. They called two motor(generator) connected via electricity (but not connected mechanically) as "eCVT". It uses clutch to switch direct drive on highway. https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2013/4130620eng-accord.html https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2013/4130620eng-accord.ht...