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> Is fuel in Oregon more expensive than surrounding states Nope. From what I hear, the increased cost of insurance for self-service is in the same ballpark as

> Is fuel in Oregon more expensive than surrounding states Nope. From what I hear, the increased cost of insurance for self-service is in the same ballpark as hiring a few attendants. So it's a wash.

karaterobot 4y ago
The price of gas in Oregon is more expensive than in neighboring states, except California, due to increase taxes on fuel in that state. In general, taxes probably explain much more of the difference in gas costs than insurance does. I'm not an expert, but it's not clear to me why insurance would cost more for a self-service station than for a full service station, so if you have a source that explains this, I'd appreciate reading it.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
The insurance cost being lower such that it offsets labor costs is obviously not true. If it were true, then there would be a business opportunity in the other 48 states for a gas station to sell full service gas at the same price as others are selling self service at. But it never, ever occurs, so it is trivial to prove the labor costs are material and would result in higher gas prices that people are not willing to pay for.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  If it's a wash economically, then self-service is still the better choice because it eliminates the other less-insurable risks that come with having employees. Unfortunately there's no easy way to tell, because in the other 48 states, full service is considered a premium service and they charge extra for it because a certain segment of consumers will pay for it. That doesn't mean it's actually more expensive.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    >full service is considered a premium service and they charge extra for it because a certain segment of consumers will pay for it. This is disproven by the fact that in my 3+ decades of travel around many US states, I have never seen a gas station attendant outside of NJ and OR. No one is willing to pay the premium necessary to employ attendants, and so they will reward the gas station owner selling self serve for cheaper. There certainly exists a population of people who would like to have others pump their gas for them. If gas station attendant labor costs made no effect on bottom line gas prices, then gas station owners would try to court these people by selling full service gas at the same price as self service. Since it does not happen, the premise of negligible labor costs must be false.
jdminhbg 4y ago
> From what I hear, the increased cost of insurance for self-service is in the same ballpark as hiring a few attendants. So it's a wash. Possible hypotheses: 1) Every single gas station in the US not in Oregon or New Jersey is run by complete idiots who can't figure out a way to make full service gas profitable despite the fact that "it's a wash." 2) What you heard is not correct.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Not sure I'm following you here. We're talking about the costs of doing business and how that might reflect in the retail price of gasoline. At this moment the price of gasoline in Washington is less than one penny different from Oregon. This whole discussion is hypothetical, of course, because there is a lot more that goes into the cost & price of gasoline than just employee wages and liability insurance. But to the original question of "is gas more expensive in Oregon?" the answer is "No."
  - jdminhbg 4y ago
    > Not sure I'm following you here. What I'm pointing out is that the issue is not that insurance and labor costs wash each other out, or the rest of the country would have more than zero full-service stations. Here is a recent academic paper that models the cost of labor: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4064061 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4064061

> Is fuel in Oregon more expensive than surrounding states Nope. From what I hear, the increased cost of insurance for self-service is in the same ballpark as hiring a few attendants. So it's a wash.

karaterobot 4y ago

The price of gas in Oregon is more expensive than in neighboring states, except California, due to increase taxes on fuel in that state. In general, taxes probably explain much more of the difference in gas costs than insurance does. I'm not an expert, but it's not clear to me why insurance would cost more for a self-service station than for a full service station, so if you have a source that explains this, I'd appreciate reading it.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

The insurance cost being lower such that it offsets labor costs is obviously not true. If it were true, then there would be a business opportunity in the other 48 states for a gas station to sell full service gas at the same price as others are selling self service at. But it never, ever occurs, so it is trivial to prove the labor costs are material and would result in higher gas prices that people are not willing to pay for.

rootusrootus 4y ago
If it's a wash economically, then self-service is still the better choice because it eliminates the other less-insurable risks that come with having employees. Unfortunately there's no easy way to tell, because in the other 48 states, full service is considered a premium service and they charge extra for it because a certain segment of consumers will pay for it. That doesn't mean it's actually more expensive.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  >full service is considered a premium service and they charge extra for it because a certain segment of consumers will pay for it. This is disproven by the fact that in my 3+ decades of travel around many US states, I have never seen a gas station attendant outside of NJ and OR. No one is willing to pay the premium necessary to employ attendants, and so they will reward the gas station owner selling self serve for cheaper. There certainly exists a population of people who would like to have others pump their gas for them. If gas station attendant labor costs made no effect on bottom line gas prices, then gas station owners would try to court these people by selling full service gas at the same price as self service. Since it does not happen, the premise of negligible labor costs must be false.

jdminhbg 4y ago

> From what I hear, the increased cost of insurance for self-service is in the same ballpark as hiring a few attendants. So it's a wash. Possible hypotheses: 1) Every single gas station in the US not in Oregon or New Jersey is run by complete idiots who can't figure out a way to make full service gas profitable despite the fact that "it's a wash." 2) What you heard is not correct.

rootusrootus 4y ago
Not sure I'm following you here. We're talking about the costs of doing business and how that might reflect in the retail price of gasoline. At this moment the price of gasoline in Washington is less than one penny different from Oregon. This whole discussion is hypothetical, of course, because there is a lot more that goes into the cost & price of gasoline than just employee wages and liability insurance. But to the original question of "is gas more expensive in Oregon?" the answer is "No."
- jdminhbg 4y ago
  > Not sure I'm following you here. What I'm pointing out is that the issue is not that insurance and labor costs wash each other out, or the rest of the country would have more than zero full-service stations. Here is a recent academic paper that models the cost of labor: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4064061 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4064061