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Because you need those children to grow up and: - pay taxes - make good governance choices - buy the products you may be making - make the products you migh

by pempem 4y ago

Because you need those children to grow up and: - pay taxes - make good governance choices - buy the products you may be making - make the products you might be selling - make the products you consume the list goes on...

knorker 4y ago
That's making purchase decisions on my behalf. Which is what taxes is in general, of course. But this is the most subsidized one of all (even in the US), and people do it whether it's subsidized or not. You could say that they are getting "paid in love". If it's already worth it for them, why should they be paid twice? Most of the benefits you list may be better off with fewer kids with the same government support. I definitely think we should invest in schools and such, to make the best people we can. But I'm sick of parents complaining that children affects their economy or has opportunity cost. Parents don't deserve a handout. Children do, however, deserve a good education. Literally everything in in life has opportunity cost. Nobody owes removing that cost for anyone else. If you spend all your money on partying nobody owes you the cost of nice clothes.
- pempem 4y ago
  LMAO paid in love. I am not a parent but when's the last time you called a parent of yours and paid them with that love? I 100% have not done so recently. Parents aren't getting a handout, we're ensuring the continuation of our society and so many forces are attempting to shape it actively.
  - knorker 4y ago
    What I mean is that being paid to be a parent is like being paid to watch a movie, or doing something you love. What's the point of paying you for it, if the act actually is its own reward?
    - pempem 4y ago
      I think my counter is that being a parent honestly seems thankless. It feels like you and I agree that maybe kids aren't for our lives and yet we're pretending its just a wildly rewarding activity like watching movies and not a situation of basically being worried or having to pay for or care for another human for the rest of your natural life. Even for two people who (I am assuming) do not have kids that feels kind of insincere. We know its not like watching a movie, or riding a bike or even going to the gym unless the gym costs you ~250k while simultaneously acting like the rude jerk I did when I was a teen.
      - knorker 4y ago
        > I think my counter is that being a parent honestly seems thankless. I hear that the smile on your child's face is infinite reward. > We know its not like watching a movie, or riding a bike or even going to the gym unless the gym costs you ~250k while simultaneously acting like the rude jerk I did when I was a teen. Yet, like I said, people do it gladly. They do it even knowing about the way it affects the woman's body, knowing about the sleep depravation, knowing about the terrible two's, knowing about the "you're stupid and I hate you" teens. If it were as simple as "this activity costs 250k and is a rude jerk" then nobody would do it. Yet they say it's so worth it.[1] So if it's so worth it for you, then do it. But I don't want to hear about how you're the victim of your own choice. Everyone is. I'll never be a fighter pilot, nor an astronaut.[2] Pilot and astronaut is the road not taken, for me. If someone chooses to have a baby and stay home for 5 years, then that's about 11% of their working life not spent improving their career. You'll never have those 11% again, and I won't pretend you walked two roads at the same time. Because nobody can. And those 11% are placed in a critical point. If someone took age 60-65 off, then that won't affect their career as much. If someone leaves university at 25, has a baby and takes five years off, then they are now 30 with zero work experience. That's not fairness, that's physics. [1] Though one guy I know said he used to not be able to comprehend why anyone would not want children. Now after he's had children he understands. He would absolutely do it again, but at least he understands people who don't want them. [2] not a real one, anyway. Maybe if prices go down a lot in my lifetime I'll be able to take a lap, but that's it.

by pempem 4y ago

knorker 4y ago

That's making purchase decisions on my behalf. Which is what taxes is in general, of course. But this is the most subsidized one of all (even in the US), and people do it whether it's subsidized or not. You could say that they are getting "paid in love". If it's already worth it for them, why should they be paid twice? Most of the benefits you list may be better off with fewer kids with the same government support. I definitely think we should invest in schools and such, to make the best people we can. But I'm sick of parents complaining that children affects their economy or has opportunity cost. Parents don't deserve a handout. Children do, however, deserve a good education. Literally everything in in life has opportunity cost. Nobody owes removing that cost for anyone else. If you spend all your money on partying nobody owes you the cost of nice clothes.

pempem 4y ago
LMAO paid in love. I am not a parent but when's the last time you called a parent of yours and paid them with that love? I 100% have not done so recently. Parents aren't getting a handout, we're ensuring the continuation of our society and so many forces are attempting to shape it actively.
- knorker 4y ago
  What I mean is that being paid to be a parent is like being paid to watch a movie, or doing something you love. What's the point of paying you for it, if the act actually is its own reward?
  - pempem 4y ago
    I think my counter is that being a parent honestly seems thankless. It feels like you and I agree that maybe kids aren't for our lives and yet we're pretending its just a wildly rewarding activity like watching movies and not a situation of basically being worried or having to pay for or care for another human for the rest of your natural life. Even for two people who (I am assuming) do not have kids that feels kind of insincere. We know its not like watching a movie, or riding a bike or even going to the gym unless the gym costs you ~250k while simultaneously acting like the rude jerk I did when I was a teen.
    - knorker 4y ago
      > I think my counter is that being a parent honestly seems thankless. I hear that the smile on your child's face is infinite reward. > We know its not like watching a movie, or riding a bike or even going to the gym unless the gym costs you ~250k while simultaneously acting like the rude jerk I did when I was a teen. Yet, like I said, people do it gladly. They do it even knowing about the way it affects the woman's body, knowing about the sleep depravation, knowing about the terrible two's, knowing about the "you're stupid and I hate you" teens. If it were as simple as "this activity costs 250k and is a rude jerk" then nobody would do it. Yet they say it's so worth it.[1] So if it's so worth it for you, then do it. But I don't want to hear about how you're the victim of your own choice. Everyone is. I'll never be a fighter pilot, nor an astronaut.[2] Pilot and astronaut is the road not taken, for me. If someone chooses to have a baby and stay home for 5 years, then that's about 11% of their working life not spent improving their career. You'll never have those 11% again, and I won't pretend you walked two roads at the same time. Because nobody can. And those 11% are placed in a critical point. If someone took age 60-65 off, then that won't affect their career as much. If someone leaves university at 25, has a baby and takes five years off, then they are now 30 with zero work experience. That's not fairness, that's physics. [1] Though one guy I know said he used to not be able to comprehend why anyone would not want children. Now after he's had children he understands. He would absolutely do it again, but at least he understands people who don't want them. [2] not a real one, anyway. Maybe if prices go down a lot in my lifetime I'll be able to take a lap, but that's it.