11 ms·

It is infuriating to read about “unpaid internship”. Why is this still a thing, in 2022? Even the White House interns aren’t paid until now. Why do even progres

by akudha 4y ago

It is infuriating to read about “unpaid internship”. Why is this still a thing, in 2022? Even the White House interns aren’t paid until now. Why do even progressive countries like Denmark allow this? Insane

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
AFAIK, unpaid internships are a thing in the Netherlands as well. Not defending it, it's stupid, but I don't understand why the Dutch and other EU countries just roll with this. This should be banned.
- akudha 4y ago
  Is there anyone speaking against this, at the EU level? These youngsters should form a group and fight back. I’d have guessed this to be a thing in say U.K, but it is depressing to learn it happens even in the progressive Nordic countries
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >Is there anyone speaking against this, at the EU level? "Speaking" never changes laws in our favor though. Big changes only happen when protests and violence are directed towards the ruling class.
    - astrange 4y ago
      I meet people who believe this about universal healthcare all the time. It’s a mystery why they think this because it never actually happened, and from Taiwan to the UK they got theirs by a government minister thinking “hmm today I will create universal healthcare”. The implementation problem there wasn’t “the ruling class”, it was bribing doctors who were afraid of getting paid less. The focus on protesting is a meme from the US New Left combined with modern activist brain; “organizers” think they’re doing something by “organizing” people into getting arrested in public because it worked once for civil rights. But of course it doesn’t do anything and everyone just ignores you.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        Universal healthcare and workers' rights are two completely different things, the latter of which was won in Europe post WW2, through protests, and fears of communism spreading, not through the ideas of politicians.
        astrange 4y ago
        They are similar in that in neither case is the problem caused by “the ruling class”. The most reactionary group in the US isn’t the ruling class (oil company billionaires), it’s the local gentry (car dealership owners), and the one opposed to more universal healthcare is the upper middle class (doctors, lawyers). Similarly expensive housing is blamed on “developers” but is actually caused by rich retired homeowners.
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      Violence is almost never directed towards the ruling class since the ruling class is not on the same street with you folks. Quite often they're in another country even.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
barry-cotter 4y ago
> It is infuriating to read about “unpaid internship”. Why is this still a thing, in 2022? Because the demand for training is high and the demand for entry level staff low. See also acting, the arts in general, publishing. One alternative is the system the US uses for union work in the building trades where you can get trainee work if you are related to someone in the union.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >the demand for entry level staff low But what about the red hot jobs market and the workers' shortage, everyone's been talking about?
  - astrange 4y ago
    Are they talking about that in Denmark for people who work at 3 star Michelin restaurants? It seems like this is an irrational industry you go into for aesthetic reasons rather than a normal job.
- j7ake 4y ago
  It’s hypocritical of European cultures to tout their great social benefits and stable employment while having an entire underclass of unpaid and abused employees that don’t get fair treatment from everybody else in society.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    Europeans aren’t morally posturing over this though. This is an American site, run by Americans, where most of the readers and commenters are American. American leftists love to talk about how great Europe is, sure. If people want to spend years of their life doing unpaid labor so they can get high status badly paid work those are their own choices. Seems like a poor choice to me but adults are free to make stupid choices in many areas.
    - j7ake 4y ago
tomp 4y ago
Is it really so terrible, given that every student in Denmark receives 900$ monthly stipend?
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  But then the Danish taxpayer is subsidizing someone's business by taking on the costs of the employer should be responsible of paying for staff wages.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Ekaros 4y ago
It is seen as part of the trade-school. And interns at this point might be trained in school, but not fully trained. So their expected value is somewhat lower. And this is done for getting the qualifications. Mostly issue is why would business accept a person for internship if they had to pay when other alternative would be to pay same or tiny bit more for someone with that experience already and possibly immediately long term employment.

by akudha 4y ago

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

AFAIK, unpaid internships are a thing in the Netherlands as well. Not defending it, it's stupid, but I don't understand why the Dutch and other EU countries just roll with this. This should be banned.

akudha 4y ago
Is there anyone speaking against this, at the EU level? These youngsters should form a group and fight back. I’d have guessed this to be a thing in say U.K, but it is depressing to learn it happens even in the progressive Nordic countries
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Is there anyone speaking against this, at the EU level? "Speaking" never changes laws in our favor though. Big changes only happen when protests and violence are directed towards the ruling class.
  - astrange 4y ago
    I meet people who believe this about universal healthcare all the time. It’s a mystery why they think this because it never actually happened, and from Taiwan to the UK they got theirs by a government minister thinking “hmm today I will create universal healthcare”. The implementation problem there wasn’t “the ruling class”, it was bribing doctors who were afraid of getting paid less. The focus on protesting is a meme from the US New Left combined with modern activist brain; “organizers” think they’re doing something by “organizing” people into getting arrested in public because it worked once for civil rights. But of course it doesn’t do anything and everyone just ignores you.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      Universal healthcare and workers' rights are two completely different things, the latter of which was won in Europe post WW2, through protests, and fears of communism spreading, not through the ideas of politicians.
      - astrange 4y ago
        They are similar in that in neither case is the problem caused by “the ruling class”. The most reactionary group in the US isn’t the ruling class (oil company billionaires), it’s the local gentry (car dealership owners), and the one opposed to more universal healthcare is the upper middle class (doctors, lawyers). Similarly expensive housing is blamed on “developers” but is actually caused by rich retired homeowners.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    Violence is almost never directed towards the ruling class since the ruling class is not on the same street with you folks. Quite often they're in another country even.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

barry-cotter 4y ago

> It is infuriating to read about “unpaid internship”. Why is this still a thing, in 2022? Because the demand for training is high and the demand for entry level staff low. See also acting, the arts in general, publishing. One alternative is the system the US uses for union work in the building trades where you can get trainee work if you are related to someone in the union.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>the demand for entry level staff low But what about the red hot jobs market and the workers' shortage, everyone's been talking about?
- astrange 4y ago
  Are they talking about that in Denmark for people who work at 3 star Michelin restaurants? It seems like this is an irrational industry you go into for aesthetic reasons rather than a normal job.
j7ake 4y ago
It’s hypocritical of European cultures to tout their great social benefits and stable employment while having an entire underclass of unpaid and abused employees that don’t get fair treatment from everybody else in society.
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  Europeans aren’t morally posturing over this though. This is an American site, run by Americans, where most of the readers and commenters are American. American leftists love to talk about how great Europe is, sure. If people want to spend years of their life doing unpaid labor so they can get high status badly paid work those are their own choices. Seems like a poor choice to me but adults are free to make stupid choices in many areas.
  - j7ake 4y ago

tomp 4y ago

Is it really so terrible, given that every student in Denmark receives 900$ monthly stipend?

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
But then the Danish taxpayer is subsidizing someone's business by taking on the costs of the employer should be responsible of paying for staff wages.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Ekaros 4y ago

It is seen as part of the trade-school. And interns at this point might be trained in school, but not fully trained. So their expected value is somewhat lower. And this is done for getting the qualifications. Mostly issue is why would business accept a person for internship if they had to pay when other alternative would be to pay same or tiny bit more for someone with that experience already and possibly immediately long term employment.