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> How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? It hasn’t taken full effect yet but it has definitely bent the arc of progress toward a lower an

> How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? It hasn’t taken full effect yet but it has definitely bent the arc of progress toward a lower angle. The extremely harsh imposition of woke views has impacted my own enjoyment of the tech industry, my ability to raise money (I stopped attending a popular Bay Area seed capital meet up because several people repeatedly commented about my white skin color and other details of my background, and due to the terms and conditions of another I never bothered to attend.). I had to leave one company because of its extreme discriminatory positions, and I’ve repeatedly heard moderate amounts of discrimination at several other companies. There are plenty of doctors and scientists who have given up on or reduced their activity in their field due to similar issues, unfortunately I don’t have time to link all this at the moment. Also all the ideological statements people need to make to become professors etc I suspect are influencing people away from academia and so academia becomes more about advocacy than research. It’s a miracle that we’re continuing to progress, but it would’ve been even better I suspect if we hadn’t had all these hindrances. Also think about all the men who are crushed in biased divorce outcomes, which is tangentially related to the woke issue, and influences their productive activities. It’s all sort of related to the oppressor oppressed narrative.

inciampati 4y ago
I want an egalitarian society. Because it opens opportunity to everyone, it should be the way to make the most value for the world. But it is hard for everyone to simultaneously agree not to profit and exploit based on superficial genetic and life histories that are clearly outside of individual control. Can we wake up enough to see each other as equals? I know what you are saying. Can it be expressed in an inclusive way? I mean that whatever woke you're talking about is still sleepwalking. And you want to explain this to others without sounding like you also are asleep or fixated on your own immutable personal situation. Perhaps I'm not making sense, but it's a try.
- zionic 4y ago
  > I want an egalitarian society What happens when party A wants this, and plays the game accordingly, while parties B, C, D, E, and F say they want it but don’t follow the same rules?
pfisch 4y ago
It's so hard to be a white male in the tech industry. However do you manage to put up with all the discrimination you face every day?
- epicureanideal 4y ago
  To be honest, it takes a lot of effort. It’s a daily struggle. I have people who depend on me so I do my best to keep going, but I would rather do something else. I’m not sure how much longer I’ll be able to keep working in this industry under these conditions. I know you’re being sarcastic, but I’m a real person too, with my own wish to live a happy life. I have a hard time understanding how some people care so deeply for certain groups but then seem to have no empathy at all for others. I would’ve thought kindness would apply universally, but I suppose there are plenty of examples in history that show that isn’t necessarily the case.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    >I have a hard time understanding how some people care so deeply for certain groups but then seem to have no empathy at all for others. This is the inevitable result of viewing society as a collection of arbitrarily-created groups instead of individuals.
  - ianai 4y ago
    You can earn a lot of respect by accepting people on their terms. People get defensive when you start attacking the words they use and disputing the life they’re telling you that they lived. It cuts both ways at that point and people quickly retreat to their corners. You don’t have to treat them as anything other than fellow human beings and ends unto themselves. Every person out there has always used language a little differently from you, has grown up in a different place and circumstance, and generally arrived at the shared present a different way than you. The trick is to agree to treat people like people and that you’re there to be an additive good and not a detractor.
  - jfoutz 4y ago
    I don't know your situation. I personally feel I've been given a lot of advantages that other people didn't get. And yet, I'm not a billionaire. It's easy for me to set unreachable standards for myself, and feel ashamed about not meeting them. A book called "Daring Greatly" by Brene Brown helped me understand some of this. I was pretty pissed off and generally drinking too much. Anyway, It sounds like you're having a hard time continuing. I'd encourage you to give the book a read if my situation feels anything like your own.
mlyle 4y ago
There's a fundamental problem, that we're all having a tough time navigating. That is-- various subgroups have a much lower rate of participation in advanced sectors of the economy. Some of this is almost certainly related to discrimination and lingering aftereffects of past discrimination. * Naively picking who appears most capable, especially based on metrics that are strongly influenced by class, may instead just be perpetuating these biases. Further, people who have had fewer resources dedicated to their development may have more opportunity for growth. * Conversely, trying to spread things out for equality-of-outcome and completely ignoring many measurements of ability is likely to be problematic, too, by not getting the strongest people in seats. In the end, allowing the entire pool of the population meaningful economic and cultural participation can be expected to bend up the arc of progress, but it is hard to figure out how to get there.
- epicureanideal 4y ago
  > Some of this is almost certainly related to discrimination and lingering aftereffects of past discrimination. Certainly possible. I think the divide between right and left on this issue is in their perception of how much this is the case. I’d be in favor of rigorous research on this topic. My own experience in the tech industry at many companies leads me to believe that if there is discrimination, it must be either historical or occurring earlier in the pipeline than tech company hiring. It’s been fairly consistent in my experience for thumbs to be put on the scales rather heavily to hire from historically disadvantaged groups, and clear bold statements have been made to exclude majority populations from interview pipelines that would be recognized as howling racism and sexism if applied to any other group. > Naively picking who appears most capable, especially based on metrics that are strongly influenced by class, may instead just be perpetuating these biases. It seems to me that we’re currently getting the worst of all possible worlds. The way we’re influencing the interview pipeline excludes low income people from the majority demographics and assists high income people from non majority demographics, with the overall effect of selecting for class above all else. I say all this as a kind person who wishes well for everyone and wants everyone to have the opportunity to self actualize to the best of their ability.
  - 4y ago

inciampati 4y ago

I want an egalitarian society. Because it opens opportunity to everyone, it should be the way to make the most value for the world. But it is hard for everyone to simultaneously agree not to profit and exploit based on superficial genetic and life histories that are clearly outside of individual control. Can we wake up enough to see each other as equals? I know what you are saying. Can it be expressed in an inclusive way? I mean that whatever woke you're talking about is still sleepwalking. And you want to explain this to others without sounding like you also are asleep or fixated on your own immutable personal situation. Perhaps I'm not making sense, but it's a try.

zionic 4y ago
> I want an egalitarian society What happens when party A wants this, and plays the game accordingly, while parties B, C, D, E, and F say they want it but don’t follow the same rules?

pfisch 4y ago

It's so hard to be a white male in the tech industry. However do you manage to put up with all the discrimination you face every day?

epicureanideal 4y ago
To be honest, it takes a lot of effort. It’s a daily struggle. I have people who depend on me so I do my best to keep going, but I would rather do something else. I’m not sure how much longer I’ll be able to keep working in this industry under these conditions. I know you’re being sarcastic, but I’m a real person too, with my own wish to live a happy life. I have a hard time understanding how some people care so deeply for certain groups but then seem to have no empathy at all for others. I would’ve thought kindness would apply universally, but I suppose there are plenty of examples in history that show that isn’t necessarily the case.
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  >I have a hard time understanding how some people care so deeply for certain groups but then seem to have no empathy at all for others. This is the inevitable result of viewing society as a collection of arbitrarily-created groups instead of individuals.
- ianai 4y ago
  You can earn a lot of respect by accepting people on their terms. People get defensive when you start attacking the words they use and disputing the life they’re telling you that they lived. It cuts both ways at that point and people quickly retreat to their corners. You don’t have to treat them as anything other than fellow human beings and ends unto themselves. Every person out there has always used language a little differently from you, has grown up in a different place and circumstance, and generally arrived at the shared present a different way than you. The trick is to agree to treat people like people and that you’re there to be an additive good and not a detractor.
- jfoutz 4y ago
  I don't know your situation. I personally feel I've been given a lot of advantages that other people didn't get. And yet, I'm not a billionaire. It's easy for me to set unreachable standards for myself, and feel ashamed about not meeting them. A book called "Daring Greatly" by Brene Brown helped me understand some of this. I was pretty pissed off and generally drinking too much. Anyway, It sounds like you're having a hard time continuing. I'd encourage you to give the book a read if my situation feels anything like your own.

mlyle 4y ago

There's a fundamental problem, that we're all having a tough time navigating. That is-- various subgroups have a much lower rate of participation in advanced sectors of the economy. Some of this is almost certainly related to discrimination and lingering aftereffects of past discrimination. * Naively picking who appears most capable, especially based on metrics that are strongly influenced by class, may instead just be perpetuating these biases. Further, people who have had fewer resources dedicated to their development may have more opportunity for growth. * Conversely, trying to spread things out for equality-of-outcome and completely ignoring many measurements of ability is likely to be problematic, too, by not getting the strongest people in seats. In the end, allowing the entire pool of the population meaningful economic and cultural participation can be expected to bend up the arc of progress, but it is hard to figure out how to get there.

epicureanideal 4y ago
> Some of this is almost certainly related to discrimination and lingering aftereffects of past discrimination. Certainly possible. I think the divide between right and left on this issue is in their perception of how much this is the case. I’d be in favor of rigorous research on this topic. My own experience in the tech industry at many companies leads me to believe that if there is discrimination, it must be either historical or occurring earlier in the pipeline than tech company hiring. It’s been fairly consistent in my experience for thumbs to be put on the scales rather heavily to hire from historically disadvantaged groups, and clear bold statements have been made to exclude majority populations from interview pipelines that would be recognized as howling racism and sexism if applied to any other group. > Naively picking who appears most capable, especially based on metrics that are strongly influenced by class, may instead just be perpetuating these biases. It seems to me that we’re currently getting the worst of all possible worlds. The way we’re influencing the interview pipeline excludes low income people from the majority demographics and assists high income people from non majority demographics, with the overall effect of selecting for class above all else. I say all this as a kind person who wishes well for everyone and wants everyone to have the opportunity to self actualize to the best of their ability.
- 4y ago