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As an European, this is nothing really surprising here to me. The entire western economies, including EU and the Nordics, thrive on exploiting desperate immigr

As an European, this is nothing really surprising here to me. The entire western economies, including EU and the Nordics, thrive on exploiting desperate immigrants, especially in low wage jobs that the locals don't want to do. That's why there's a lot of push from governments for open borders, visa free, easy-emmigration, inviting refugees and migrants, etc. to further drive down local wages and increase demand for real estate, both of which benefit the old money entrenched wealth, business and asset owning class, especially in Europe where this class is a lot bigger and richer than in the US, relative to the wage class. We're basically setting up for Feudalism 2.0 Enhanced Edition. So all the fancy workers' rights the EU/Nordics are famous for on paper, go out the window when you're a migrant worker on a visa with strings attached, and you find yourself at the mercy of unscrupulous business owners who are experts at skirting employment laws in just the right ways to stay legit, plus the government institutions responsible for regulating this, who know about these practices but turn a blind eye, as instructed by business lobby groups so "the economy can function" (you want your cheap meant, no? or the cheap strawberries? or cheap asparagus?). I wish we could stop this but it seems like consumers only care about worker abuse until it impacts their wallets and realize they need to pay more for the stuff they've been conditioned to get for cheap their whole lives.

ch4s3 4y ago
I’ve talked to a lot of Mexican and Central American immigrants to the US a ver the years working in service, agriculture, trades, and transportation. I’ve never once heard one of them say they thought of themselves as exploited, in fact many of them worked very hard to get here and encouraged family and friends to follow. That said, I’ve heard different things about the folks working in meat packing, just never first hand. I don’t want to make it sound glamorous, but people come, stay, and start families here for a reason.
- brewdad 4y ago
  You can exploit someone to the edge of breakdown but it still might be an improvement over the life conditions they left behind to come to the US. That doesn't make it right however.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    It seems to me that there is a habit of thought among some that leads them to believe any economic interaction they disprove of is exploitation. My experience from talking to the types of people in question is that they don’t think of themselves as being exploited. Would it be better for restaurants to collectively raise prices and pay better wages, probably but that could also mean fewer opportunities for people to get a toehold on the economic ladder. Not I don’t think acknowledging that trade off justifies absolutely any situation, I’m just pointing out that there is a trade off there. It provides a very real path into the labor market for people with limited skills who don’t yet speak the dominant language. Many economies don’t provide that on-ramp and have very high unemployment among working age immigrants. But as I said I’m open to the idea that the present arrangement is socially or even economically suboptimal.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
goodpoint 4y ago
> western economies ... exploiting desperate immigrants No, you are thinking rich countries in general. > open borders ... inviting refugees ... fancy workers' rights ... instructed by business lobby groups You paint it like EU was supposed to have an unified and consistent policy. Could it be that some political entities are actually supporting both open borders and workers rights, while other side with the business others? What if there were different political entities with opposing values?
avh02 4y ago
wait until you hear about conditions in the (arabian) gulf.
tubalcain 4y ago
Canada does this. Tim Hortons can't find workers so the government lets them recruit Filipinos as indentured servants.
- ghiculescu 4y ago
  That sounds awful. Why do you think the Filipinos go along with it?

ch4s3 4y ago

I’ve talked to a lot of Mexican and Central American immigrants to the US a ver the years working in service, agriculture, trades, and transportation. I’ve never once heard one of them say they thought of themselves as exploited, in fact many of them worked very hard to get here and encouraged family and friends to follow. That said, I’ve heard different things about the folks working in meat packing, just never first hand. I don’t want to make it sound glamorous, but people come, stay, and start families here for a reason.

brewdad 4y ago
You can exploit someone to the edge of breakdown but it still might be an improvement over the life conditions they left behind to come to the US. That doesn't make it right however.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  It seems to me that there is a habit of thought among some that leads them to believe any economic interaction they disprove of is exploitation. My experience from talking to the types of people in question is that they don’t think of themselves as being exploited. Would it be better for restaurants to collectively raise prices and pay better wages, probably but that could also mean fewer opportunities for people to get a toehold on the economic ladder. Not I don’t think acknowledging that trade off justifies absolutely any situation, I’m just pointing out that there is a trade off there. It provides a very real path into the labor market for people with limited skills who don’t yet speak the dominant language. Many economies don’t provide that on-ramp and have very high unemployment among working age immigrants. But as I said I’m open to the idea that the present arrangement is socially or even economically suboptimal.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

goodpoint 4y ago

> western economies ... exploiting desperate immigrants No, you are thinking rich countries in general. > open borders ... inviting refugees ... fancy workers' rights ... instructed by business lobby groups You paint it like EU was supposed to have an unified and consistent policy. Could it be that some political entities are actually supporting both open borders and workers rights, while other side with the business others? What if there were different political entities with opposing values?

avh02 4y ago

wait until you hear about conditions in the (arabian) gulf.

tubalcain 4y ago

Canada does this. Tim Hortons can't find workers so the government lets them recruit Filipinos as indentured servants.

ghiculescu 4y ago
That sounds awful. Why do you think the Filipinos go along with it?