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How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? The social/cultural backlash clearly refers to a backlash against technological progress. If anyt

by suture 4y ago

How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? The social/cultural backlash clearly refers to a backlash against technological progress. If anything one could make an argument that the current anti-vax/anti-science elements pervading society would fit the description should their views gain more traction.

pmdulaney 4y ago
No. 10 is: A social and cultural backlash stops progress dead in its tracks. Projecting this forward 25 years, and knowing that WIRED is a progressive publication itself, I was seeing this as a prediction that wokeism itself would be stopped in its tracks by cultural backlash. So far as I can tell, that has not yet happened.
MatthiasWandel 4y ago
That's very subjective. Some would say wokeism threatens progress, others say anti-wokeism ghreatens progress because wokeism IS progress. Anti-science is just saying that the other side disagreees with some science that is incovnvenient to them (both sides). I would say they didn't get that one right. They didn't predict today's divisiveness.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
epicureanideal 4y ago
> How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? It hasn’t taken full effect yet but it has definitely bent the arc of progress toward a lower angle. The extremely harsh imposition of woke views has impacted my own enjoyment of the tech industry, my ability to raise money (I stopped attending a popular Bay Area seed capital meet up because several people repeatedly commented about my white skin color and other details of my background, and due to the terms and conditions of another I never bothered to attend.). I had to leave one company because of its extreme discriminatory positions, and I’ve repeatedly heard moderate amounts of discrimination at several other companies. There are plenty of doctors and scientists who have given up on or reduced their activity in their field due to similar issues, unfortunately I don’t have time to link all this at the moment. Also all the ideological statements people need to make to become professors etc I suspect are influencing people away from academia and so academia becomes more about advocacy than research. It’s a miracle that we’re continuing to progress, but it would’ve been even better I suspect if we hadn’t had all these hindrances. Also think about all the men who are crushed in biased divorce outcomes, which is tangentially related to the woke issue, and influences their productive activities. It’s all sort of related to the oppressor oppressed narrative.
- inciampati 4y ago
  I want an egalitarian society. Because it opens opportunity to everyone, it should be the way to make the most value for the world. But it is hard for everyone to simultaneously agree not to profit and exploit based on superficial genetic and life histories that are clearly outside of individual control. Can we wake up enough to see each other as equals? I know what you are saying. Can it be expressed in an inclusive way? I mean that whatever woke you're talking about is still sleepwalking. And you want to explain this to others without sounding like you also are asleep or fixated on your own immutable personal situation. Perhaps I'm not making sense, but it's a try.
  - zionic 4y ago
    > I want an egalitarian society What happens when party A wants this, and plays the game accordingly, while parties B, C, D, E, and F say they want it but don’t follow the same rules?
- pfisch 4y ago
  It's so hard to be a white male in the tech industry. However do you manage to put up with all the discrimination you face every day?
  - epicureanideal 4y ago
    To be honest, it takes a lot of effort. It’s a daily struggle. I have people who depend on me so I do my best to keep going, but I would rather do something else. I’m not sure how much longer I’ll be able to keep working in this industry under these conditions. I know you’re being sarcastic, but I’m a real person too, with my own wish to live a happy life. I have a hard time understanding how some people care so deeply for certain groups but then seem to have no empathy at all for others. I would’ve thought kindness would apply universally, but I suppose there are plenty of examples in history that show that isn’t necessarily the case.
    - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
the_third_wave 4y ago
- the_biot 4y ago
  Those are really broad conclusions. Do you have numbers/facts/studies to back them up? It's my gut feeling as well, but gut feelings and personal anecdotes have no place in rational debates.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    There is plenty of proof to be found, from the lowering of standards in education which focuses on 'other ways of knowing' and 'lived experience', eschewing 'facts' for 'cultural knowledge', closing schools for high-performing students because these either have too many Asian and white students or not enough 'students of colour', the removal of standardised tests because these are supposedly 'racist', the implementation of race-based grading to create 'equity' through the Smithsonian claiming that 'rational thinking and hard work are White values'. Here's a few articles to plough through for more information on the detrimental effects of critical theory praxis: https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/17/critical-race-theory-distracts-from-real-problems-in-education-this-reformer-says/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/17/critical-race-theory-... https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333 https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rationa... https://www.politico.com/newsletters/the-recast/2021/10/29/woke-racism-john-mcwhorter-494906 https://www.politico.com/newsletters/the-recast/2021/10/29/w... https://christopherrufo.com/crt-briefing-book/ https://christopherrufo.com/crt-briefing-book/ https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ Most of these deal with education in one way or another since that is the main avenue for critical theory-derived ideologies to enter society. For more pointers towards the detrimental effects of other 'critical' theories like 'queer theory' [1] you'll find a good start in the New Discourses 'Translations from the Wokish' [2] [1] https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-queer-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-queer-theory/ [2] https://newdiscourses.com/translations-from-the-wokish/ https://newdiscourses.com/translations-from-the-wokish/
logicalmonster 4y ago
> How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? I think its hard to make the argument that technical progress has stopped, but to some extent the woke ideologues do introduce friction to technical progress. Here’s one simple example: before wokeism took root in corporations, the ideal that most wanted to strive towards was something like a color-blind meritocracy. Today, the prevailing idea in hiring/promoting in many corporations isn’t “is this person the absolute best scientist/engineer/inventor that we can get” it’s “does this person have the right identity?”. It’s not hard to imagine that some technical progress is being left on the table by the focus on identity and not on merit. > If anything one could make an argument that the current anti-vax/anti-science elements pervading society would fit the description should their views gain more traction. Deciding whether to take a medication is not the domain of science: that’s a risk-management decision. The well of discourse has been poisoned by the repeated false claim that not finding enough benefit in a particular medication is anti-science. Science can’t and doesn’t command anybody to take any medication, it just gives you tools to understand the possible risks and benefits. People can reasonably disagree that the risks aren’t worth the benefits, even if you personally disagree.

by suture 4y ago

pmdulaney 4y ago

No. 10 is: A social and cultural backlash stops progress dead in its tracks. Projecting this forward 25 years, and knowing that WIRED is a progressive publication itself, I was seeing this as a prediction that wokeism itself would be stopped in its tracks by cultural backlash. So far as I can tell, that has not yet happened.

MatthiasWandel 4y ago

That's very subjective. Some would say wokeism threatens progress, others say anti-wokeism ghreatens progress because wokeism IS progress. Anti-science is just saying that the other side disagreees with some science that is incovnvenient to them (both sides). I would say they didn't get that one right. They didn't predict today's divisiveness.

KerrAvon 4y ago

epicureanideal 4y ago

> How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? It hasn’t taken full effect yet but it has definitely bent the arc of progress toward a lower angle. The extremely harsh imposition of woke views has impacted my own enjoyment of the tech industry, my ability to raise money (I stopped attending a popular Bay Area seed capital meet up because several people repeatedly commented about my white skin color and other details of my background, and due to the terms and conditions of another I never bothered to attend.). I had to leave one company because of its extreme discriminatory positions, and I’ve repeatedly heard moderate amounts of discrimination at several other companies. There are plenty of doctors and scientists who have given up on or reduced their activity in their field due to similar issues, unfortunately I don’t have time to link all this at the moment. Also all the ideological statements people need to make to become professors etc I suspect are influencing people away from academia and so academia becomes more about advocacy than research. It’s a miracle that we’re continuing to progress, but it would’ve been even better I suspect if we hadn’t had all these hindrances. Also think about all the men who are crushed in biased divorce outcomes, which is tangentially related to the woke issue, and influences their productive activities. It’s all sort of related to the oppressor oppressed narrative.

inciampati 4y ago
I want an egalitarian society. Because it opens opportunity to everyone, it should be the way to make the most value for the world. But it is hard for everyone to simultaneously agree not to profit and exploit based on superficial genetic and life histories that are clearly outside of individual control. Can we wake up enough to see each other as equals? I know what you are saying. Can it be expressed in an inclusive way? I mean that whatever woke you're talking about is still sleepwalking. And you want to explain this to others without sounding like you also are asleep or fixated on your own immutable personal situation. Perhaps I'm not making sense, but it's a try.
- zionic 4y ago
  > I want an egalitarian society What happens when party A wants this, and plays the game accordingly, while parties B, C, D, E, and F say they want it but don’t follow the same rules?
pfisch 4y ago
It's so hard to be a white male in the tech industry. However do you manage to put up with all the discrimination you face every day?
- epicureanideal 4y ago
  To be honest, it takes a lot of effort. It’s a daily struggle. I have people who depend on me so I do my best to keep going, but I would rather do something else. I’m not sure how much longer I’ll be able to keep working in this industry under these conditions. I know you’re being sarcastic, but I’m a real person too, with my own wish to live a happy life. I have a hard time understanding how some people care so deeply for certain groups but then seem to have no empathy at all for others. I would’ve thought kindness would apply universally, but I suppose there are plenty of examples in history that show that isn’t necessarily the case.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago

the_third_wave 4y ago

the_biot 4y ago
Those are really broad conclusions. Do you have numbers/facts/studies to back them up? It's my gut feeling as well, but gut feelings and personal anecdotes have no place in rational debates.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  There is plenty of proof to be found, from the lowering of standards in education which focuses on 'other ways of knowing' and 'lived experience', eschewing 'facts' for 'cultural knowledge', closing schools for high-performing students because these either have too many Asian and white students or not enough 'students of colour', the removal of standardised tests because these are supposedly 'racist', the implementation of race-based grading to create 'equity' through the Smithsonian claiming that 'rational thinking and hard work are White values'. Here's a few articles to plough through for more information on the detrimental effects of critical theory praxis: https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/17/critical-race-theory-distracts-from-real-problems-in-education-this-reformer-says/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/17/critical-race-theory-... https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333 https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rationa... https://www.politico.com/newsletters/the-recast/2021/10/29/woke-racism-john-mcwhorter-494906 https://www.politico.com/newsletters/the-recast/2021/10/29/w... https://christopherrufo.com/crt-briefing-book/ https://christopherrufo.com/crt-briefing-book/ https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ Most of these deal with education in one way or another since that is the main avenue for critical theory-derived ideologies to enter society. For more pointers towards the detrimental effects of other 'critical' theories like 'queer theory' [1] you'll find a good start in the New Discourses 'Translations from the Wokish' [2] [1] https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-queer-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-queer-theory/ [2] https://newdiscourses.com/translations-from-the-wokish/ https://newdiscourses.com/translations-from-the-wokish/

logicalmonster 4y ago

> How has progress been stopped dead in its tracks by wokeism? I think its hard to make the argument that technical progress has stopped, but to some extent the woke ideologues do introduce friction to technical progress. Here’s one simple example: before wokeism took root in corporations, the ideal that most wanted to strive towards was something like a color-blind meritocracy. Today, the prevailing idea in hiring/promoting in many corporations isn’t “is this person the absolute best scientist/engineer/inventor that we can get” it’s “does this person have the right identity?”. It’s not hard to imagine that some technical progress is being left on the table by the focus on identity and not on merit. > If anything one could make an argument that the current anti-vax/anti-science elements pervading society would fit the description should their views gain more traction. Deciding whether to take a medication is not the domain of science: that’s a risk-management decision. The well of discourse has been poisoned by the repeated false claim that not finding enough benefit in a particular medication is anti-science. Science can’t and doesn’t command anybody to take any medication, it just gives you tools to understand the possible risks and benefits. People can reasonably disagree that the risks aren’t worth the benefits, even if you personally disagree.