5 ms·

That's not the problem, that's the reason almost all medical development happens in America. Rich people from all around the world travel to American hospitals

That's not the problem, that's the reason almost all medical development happens in America. Rich people from all around the world travel to American hospitals if they have serious health problems, not to public hospitals even in rich countries like Norway. Public healthcare works (poorly) as a way to distribute existing treatment, but is worthless at incentivizing development. Really, the entire world is unfairly parasitizing on Americans to fund medical research.

machiaweliczny 4y ago
Or rather America is siphoning market by having monopoly. My father works in pharma factory and wages have not risen almost at all since 20 years ago when it was bought by americans (by bribe to gov). Some drugs got 10x more expensive while workers and patients got it worse. This was ultra scam but even after change of owners it’s basically the same. Capitalism works only with competition. But competition is against capital owners short-term extractionism (or rather against ceos who feels need to justify their pay). IMO solution is to let workers vote on CEO pay changes and punish white collar crime better and many problems of capitalism might get solved. EDIT: IMO it won’t work as long as globalization can be exploited to suppress working class and avoid regulation
bwb 4y ago
That is not true, look up medical outcome data. Most of europe is far ahead or even with the USA.
- caddemon 4y ago
  Unless you are looking at outcomes of only the top institutions it's not really what he was saying. The US has a bad system for the average person for sure, but that does not mean that the US doesn't have one of the best systems if you can afford the best care. If you have medical outcome data that disputes that specifically I'd be interested.
  - bwb 4y ago
    Why would you think the best hospitals in the USA outperform any other developed country's best hospitals? Especially when those countries already deliver better average results across the board. Why do you have this belief and what is it based on? One example of cancer outcomes on a per country basis: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-survival-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-su... Just google medical outcomes for any disease on a per country basis. Do you really think the best hospitals in France or somehow worse than the best hospitals in the USA? Especially when the best hospitals in the USA still have the same fundamental problems as the rest of the American system?
    - caddemon 4y ago
      It is extremely plausible that worst case, average case, and best case have different rankings - it's a little telling that you have no data and your only counter is to say that average should have the same trend. I am aware that most of the cutting edge clinical trials in my field occur in the US. I have also seen people travel to the US for treatment of rare diseases. And I know that this isn't a surprising thing for the US in general, just look at our universities. It's actually pretty funny that the only other response I got was someone saying that this is super obvious/true across fields in the US and thus not an interesting statement.
      - bwb 4y ago
        It is extremely weird that you think the best hospitals in the USA are not the same as the best hospitals in other developed countries. Especially given that their medical systems outperform the US system on a general basis. I don't know if it is a weird American bias or what. I'd take a look at the bias there and this belief in American exceptionalism as it doesn't pan out in the data. Cutting edge clinical trials and those companies are global in nature. I mean just look at the Moderna team and where they conducted those.
  - Teever 4y ago
    > The US has a bad system for the average person for sure, but that does not mean that the US doesn't have one of the best systems if you can afford the best... That's basically the case for everything in America, so I'm not sure that it says anything remarkable about the American healthcare system. Like can you think of anything else in America that you couldn't apply that statement to?

machiaweliczny 4y ago

Or rather America is siphoning market by having monopoly. My father works in pharma factory and wages have not risen almost at all since 20 years ago when it was bought by americans (by bribe to gov). Some drugs got 10x more expensive while workers and patients got it worse. This was ultra scam but even after change of owners it’s basically the same. Capitalism works only with competition. But competition is against capital owners short-term extractionism (or rather against ceos who feels need to justify their pay). IMO solution is to let workers vote on CEO pay changes and punish white collar crime better and many problems of capitalism might get solved. EDIT: IMO it won’t work as long as globalization can be exploited to suppress working class and avoid regulation

bwb 4y ago

That is not true, look up medical outcome data. Most of europe is far ahead or even with the USA.

caddemon 4y ago
Unless you are looking at outcomes of only the top institutions it's not really what he was saying. The US has a bad system for the average person for sure, but that does not mean that the US doesn't have one of the best systems if you can afford the best care. If you have medical outcome data that disputes that specifically I'd be interested.
- bwb 4y ago
  Why would you think the best hospitals in the USA outperform any other developed country's best hospitals? Especially when those countries already deliver better average results across the board. Why do you have this belief and what is it based on? One example of cancer outcomes on a per country basis: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-survival-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-su... Just google medical outcomes for any disease on a per country basis. Do you really think the best hospitals in France or somehow worse than the best hospitals in the USA? Especially when the best hospitals in the USA still have the same fundamental problems as the rest of the American system?
  - caddemon 4y ago
    It is extremely plausible that worst case, average case, and best case have different rankings - it's a little telling that you have no data and your only counter is to say that average should have the same trend. I am aware that most of the cutting edge clinical trials in my field occur in the US. I have also seen people travel to the US for treatment of rare diseases. And I know that this isn't a surprising thing for the US in general, just look at our universities. It's actually pretty funny that the only other response I got was someone saying that this is super obvious/true across fields in the US and thus not an interesting statement.
    - bwb 4y ago
      It is extremely weird that you think the best hospitals in the USA are not the same as the best hospitals in other developed countries. Especially given that their medical systems outperform the US system on a general basis. I don't know if it is a weird American bias or what. I'd take a look at the bias there and this belief in American exceptionalism as it doesn't pan out in the data. Cutting edge clinical trials and those companies are global in nature. I mean just look at the Moderna team and where they conducted those.
- Teever 4y ago
  > The US has a bad system for the average person for sure, but that does not mean that the US doesn't have one of the best systems if you can afford the best... That's basically the case for everything in America, so I'm not sure that it says anything remarkable about the American healthcare system. Like can you think of anything else in America that you couldn't apply that statement to?