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I expect an actual computing device, not a locked up console, which is what these things are. A device running on a real OS, in the sense of an actual operatin

I expect an actual computing device, not a locked up console, which is what these things are. A device running on a real OS, in the sense of an actual operating system - the thing that just controls hardware and runs whatever you throw at it, will be found even more useful by your partner as it will stretch far beyond ProCreate.

rollcat 4y ago
Name a hardware+pen+OS+app combo that beats iPad + Apple Pencil + ProCreate. Name it.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Oddly enough, that wasn't the problem framed.
  - rollcat 4y ago
    I'm sorry, but what is the problem? We already own more general-purpose computers than we can carry, might be the problem.
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      sto_hristo's already replied here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31631979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31631979 For myself, based on over ten years' experience with Android, and quoting myself: [T]he OSes themselves are BDSM nightmares. Because the apps aren’t trusted (very rightfully so), they can’t share storage, so there’s next to no interaction between applications. Coming from Unix, the land of pipes (literally streaming data between programs to do useful things) this is … staggering. Apps themselves are aimed at the minimum viable user, economics are painful, and the result is that a million minimally useful buggy pieces of shit bloom, with no way for users to assess which ones don’t actually suck manure through a straw. (Spoiler alert: they all do.) User is denied root. There’s little option for adblocking or firewalling on-device. ... Touch: the fact that a click and a drag cannot be reliably distinguished … just fucking kills me. Android’s had ten motherfucking years to sort this, and hasn’t figured it out. Hardware vendors are a fucking disaster. Everything I’ve ever had or used from Samsung has been a massive disappointment (from electronics to appliances), I consider the brand a warning label. Post-purchase OS upgrades from any vendor appear to be exceedingly rare if at all available. Android has been a privacy disaster from day one. ... https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100... Termux is the one Android app that does not specifically suck. (Einkbro is rapidly approaching that status, credit where due.) Tablets, preferably e-ink, are quite good for reading textual material, if the display is sufficiently large (8" is about the minimum, I prefer 10 -- 13"). For virtually any generative / productivity tasks, a laptop is preferred. Sketching is a possible exception, though desktop + Wacom tablet is probably better. It's the OS and application ecosystem, plus the pervasive surveillance state, that have me utterly turned off tablets. I don't think my views are widely held. I do think they're valid.
      - rollcat 4y ago
        You're basically repeating what I said in my original post. Different people have different needs and expectations for their devices. sto_hristo is yet to explain what device they think would work better for an artist as a drawing tablet.
        dredmorbius 4y ago
        And answering someone who states that they have a specific set of interests and needs with ... a completely different use case ... is ignoring their argument. sto_hristo didn't deny your use case. You're denying sto_hristo's.
        rollcat 4y ago
        > And answering someone who states that they have a specific set of interests and needs with ... a completely different use case ... is ignoring their argument. You're twisting the situation 180 degrees. I have specifically stated that different people have different computing needs, implying there are no one-size-fits-all solutions. sto_hristo is trying to convince me otherwise, apparently they know for a fact that my partner doesn't need an iPad. Why do I even bother replying to either of you?
        dredmorbius 4y ago
        I'm sorry, but I'd missed where sto_hristo made the case that there is a "one-size-fits-all solution". Could you point that out to me? Thanks.
- sto_hristo 4y ago
  You're missing the point. It's about what you can with that hardware. If the world was limited to ProCreate only, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But there's much more to be done on that hardware and the only thing standing in the way is the artificially crippled OS that is really a platform for advertisements.
  - rollcat 4y ago
    > You're missing the point. It's about what you can with that hardware. So what does this hypothetical better-than-iPad general-purpose portable computing device do, that her laptop isn't doing already? I'm still waiting for *a* point. > [...] a platform for advertisements. Have you actually used an iPad?
    - sto_hristo 4y ago
      I already explained it to you. Re-read the replies and try to comprehend them like the normal people did. You don't have to a software engineer to do so, as these things are pretty soft to assimilate.
      - rollcat 4y ago
        > I already explained it to you. Re-read the replies and try to comprehend them like the normal people did. You did not explain anything at all in your two most recent replies, and now you are trying to insult me. All you've done is you're repeatedly making some extremely vague promises of "something even more useful", "so much more to do": > [...] the thing that just controls hardware and runs whatever you throw at it, will be found even more useful [...] > [...] there's much more to be done on that hardware [...] I have already clarified that we also have several other devices (including laptops, desktops, servers) which are already running whatever we throw at them. How would adding (for example) a second laptop, or some other "more useful" (which?) device actually provide more value to someone, whose primary occupation is making art, often on the go - in the nature, in a cafe? Expecting a full day's charge, a very bright screen, first-class support for pencil input? Again, she already has a laptop that runs "whatever you throw at it". Are you going to argue that I should carry a laptop to check the time, as opposed to a phone or a wristwatch?
icehawk 4y ago
Unlikely, if all they want to do is draw on a tablet. For most people out there computers are the means and not the end. Any feature outside "helps me do X faster/easier/better" is irrelevant.
Gigachad 4y ago
I only use my iPad for Procreate. Sure it would be nice to have the option to do anything, but I wouldn't use it or get any extra value out of it. It's like when iSH came out and you got a full linux shell on ios. Very cool, used it for a few minutes and then never used it again because I don't need anything extra on my iPad.

rollcat 4y ago

Name a hardware+pen+OS+app combo that beats iPad + Apple Pencil + ProCreate. Name it.

dredmorbius 4y ago
Oddly enough, that wasn't the problem framed.
- rollcat 4y ago
  I'm sorry, but what is the problem? We already own more general-purpose computers than we can carry, might be the problem.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    sto_hristo's already replied here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31631979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31631979 For myself, based on over ten years' experience with Android, and quoting myself: [T]he OSes themselves are BDSM nightmares. Because the apps aren’t trusted (very rightfully so), they can’t share storage, so there’s next to no interaction between applications. Coming from Unix, the land of pipes (literally streaming data between programs to do useful things) this is … staggering. Apps themselves are aimed at the minimum viable user, economics are painful, and the result is that a million minimally useful buggy pieces of shit bloom, with no way for users to assess which ones don’t actually suck manure through a straw. (Spoiler alert: they all do.) User is denied root. There’s little option for adblocking or firewalling on-device. ... Touch: the fact that a click and a drag cannot be reliably distinguished … just fucking kills me. Android’s had ten motherfucking years to sort this, and hasn’t figured it out. Hardware vendors are a fucking disaster. Everything I’ve ever had or used from Samsung has been a massive disappointment (from electronics to appliances), I consider the brand a warning label. Post-purchase OS upgrades from any vendor appear to be exceedingly rare if at all available. Android has been a privacy disaster from day one. ... https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100... Termux is the one Android app that does not specifically suck. (Einkbro is rapidly approaching that status, credit where due.) Tablets, preferably e-ink, are quite good for reading textual material, if the display is sufficiently large (8" is about the minimum, I prefer 10 -- 13"). For virtually any generative / productivity tasks, a laptop is preferred. Sketching is a possible exception, though desktop + Wacom tablet is probably better. It's the OS and application ecosystem, plus the pervasive surveillance state, that have me utterly turned off tablets. I don't think my views are widely held. I do think they're valid.
    - rollcat 4y ago
      You're basically repeating what I said in my original post. Different people have different needs and expectations for their devices. sto_hristo is yet to explain what device they think would work better for an artist as a drawing tablet.
      - dredmorbius 4y ago
        And answering someone who states that they have a specific set of interests and needs with ... a completely different use case ... is ignoring their argument. sto_hristo didn't deny your use case. You're denying sto_hristo's.
        rollcat 4y ago
        > And answering someone who states that they have a specific set of interests and needs with ... a completely different use case ... is ignoring their argument. You're twisting the situation 180 degrees. I have specifically stated that different people have different computing needs, implying there are no one-size-fits-all solutions. sto_hristo is trying to convince me otherwise, apparently they know for a fact that my partner doesn't need an iPad. Why do I even bother replying to either of you?
        dredmorbius 4y ago
        I'm sorry, but I'd missed where sto_hristo made the case that there is a "one-size-fits-all solution". Could you point that out to me? Thanks.
sto_hristo 4y ago
You're missing the point. It's about what you can with that hardware. If the world was limited to ProCreate only, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But there's much more to be done on that hardware and the only thing standing in the way is the artificially crippled OS that is really a platform for advertisements.
- rollcat 4y ago
  > You're missing the point. It's about what you can with that hardware. So what does this hypothetical better-than-iPad general-purpose portable computing device do, that her laptop isn't doing already? I'm still waiting for *a* point. > [...] a platform for advertisements. Have you actually used an iPad?
  - sto_hristo 4y ago
    I already explained it to you. Re-read the replies and try to comprehend them like the normal people did. You don't have to a software engineer to do so, as these things are pretty soft to assimilate.
    - rollcat 4y ago
      > I already explained it to you. Re-read the replies and try to comprehend them like the normal people did. You did not explain anything at all in your two most recent replies, and now you are trying to insult me. All you've done is you're repeatedly making some extremely vague promises of "something even more useful", "so much more to do": > [...] the thing that just controls hardware and runs whatever you throw at it, will be found even more useful [...] > [...] there's much more to be done on that hardware [...] I have already clarified that we also have several other devices (including laptops, desktops, servers) which are already running whatever we throw at them. How would adding (for example) a second laptop, or some other "more useful" (which?) device actually provide more value to someone, whose primary occupation is making art, often on the go - in the nature, in a cafe? Expecting a full day's charge, a very bright screen, first-class support for pencil input? Again, she already has a laptop that runs "whatever you throw at it". Are you going to argue that I should carry a laptop to check the time, as opposed to a phone or a wristwatch?

icehawk 4y ago

Unlikely, if all they want to do is draw on a tablet. For most people out there computers are the means and not the end. Any feature outside "helps me do X faster/easier/better" is irrelevant.

Gigachad 4y ago

I only use my iPad for Procreate. Sure it would be nice to have the option to do anything, but I wouldn't use it or get any extra value out of it. It's like when iSH came out and you got a full linux shell on ios. Very cool, used it for a few minutes and then never used it again because I don't need anything extra on my iPad.