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I raised my eyebrows at the NPR version of this yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/04/1103066205/taser-armed-drones-school-shootings https://www.npr.org/20

I raised my eyebrows at the NPR version of this yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/04/1103066205/taser-armed-drones-school-shootings https://www.npr.org/2022/06/04/1103066205/taser-armed-drones... What happens when some kid breaks the end off a mechanical pencil, attaches a gum band, tapes that sucker up, and starts shooting BBs into the thing like they used to and it crashes onto some teacher's head and kills them[1]? I don't know if making literal zip guns during recess was a 90s Catholic school thing, but maybe don't do this. (Especially since I can remember when the teacher's union would shit the bed about sharp scissors or a single non lock blade less than 3 inch Swiss Army knife.) If you're that scared of your children, maybe you should rethink whether an arms race is the correct solution, especially since traumatized teens end up being anxious adults unsuited to be caregivers. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/nyregion/remote-controlled-copter-fatally-strikes-pilot-at-park.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/nyregion/remote-controlle...

robonerd 4y ago
When I was in public school, lots of people made those including me. I wouldn't call them zip-guns though, they're a form of improvised sling shot (or spear gun, if you use those sandwich toothpicks with the plastic frills on one end.) They're basically harmless, I don't see what the trouble is except for the 'distracted from class' angle. I don't think you could even shoot somebody's eye out with one, they're about as powerful as throwing a pebble by hand. I don't think you could crash a drone with one either.
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  >They're basically harmless They got you expelled and sent to a place that would make you need stitches if you stayed on the computer too long where I grew up. It's a weapon AND a tool, make no mistake.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    Just to be clear, we're talking about combining a mechanical pencil and a rubber band to launch BBs, tooth picks, etc? These are "weapons" in the sense that nerf guns are, maybe enough to trigger hysterical zero tolerance rules but certainly not enough to actually threaten anybody with sense. They only have as much power as a rubber band. You can (and we did) get better results using just the rubber band stretched between your thumb and index finger. You can launch a pencil clear across the room like that.. but you could also just throw the pencil. Treating these as real weapons, let alone zip-guns, is an absolute farce. Zero tolerance means zero thought.
    - dontbenebby 4y ago
      >Treating these as real weapons, let alone zip-guns, is an absolute farce. Zero tolerance means zero thought. Agreed, but unfortunately no one ever gave me a stable job where I could post stuff like that from. I've bounced from precarious role to precarious role for over a decade.
    - defterGoose 4y ago
      While I generally agree with the points you make, I have to disagree that there's zero difference between "throwing a pebble [toothpick, pencil, etc]" and making an improvised device to launch a projectile. Sure, you could put out an eye either way, but only one of those methods is designed specifically with the goal of accurate, repeatable assault. You could very well define such a device as a weapon, whereas defining someone's arms as weapons is trickier based on their use cases and legal precedent. If I throw a pencil and it sticks in someone's eye it was a freak accident and I'm only liable up to that standard. If I shoot a person in the eye with an improvised device, then it's much easier to argue that I meant to do it.
      - dontbenebby 4y ago
        >If I throw a pencil and it sticks in someone's eye it was a freak accident and I'm only liable up to that standard. That's a folk belief. If you throw a pencil like that in my left eye, I might use the right one to aim the shot that kills you, and in Pennsylvania I'd be legally in the right under stand your ground, as well as several other states. Please don't confuse your opinions about ethics with very well tested facts about how the world works, you could get yourself killed, and if I didn't care about that I'd let you continue on your dangerous path of thinking. No one is obligated to tolerate violence, and I worry that those who refuse to understand that are a danger to themselves AND others via the chaos they induce.
PeterHolzwarth 4y ago
What you are describing is not a zip gun. A zip gun is an improvised firearm that typically, but not always, fires pistol cartridges (rifle or shotgun cartridge zip guns can and have been made, but they can be more sketchy to use and control). Zip guns are cobbled together from a pipe and some basic form of firing mechanism, etc.
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  Thanks, you're correct, I apologize for being imprecise in my language. It's an improvised weapon... a zip gun like they taught us about in middle school English class would be more like if I used a mousetrap to trigger a .22 magnum shell down a short shaped piece of pipe into someone's skull from a range of under five yards, since the unrifled barrel causes whatever comes out to tumble and thus not fly straight very long.

robonerd 4y ago

When I was in public school, lots of people made those including me. I wouldn't call them zip-guns though, they're a form of improvised sling shot (or spear gun, if you use those sandwich toothpicks with the plastic frills on one end.) They're basically harmless, I don't see what the trouble is except for the 'distracted from class' angle. I don't think you could even shoot somebody's eye out with one, they're about as powerful as throwing a pebble by hand. I don't think you could crash a drone with one either.

dontbenebby 4y ago
>They're basically harmless They got you expelled and sent to a place that would make you need stitches if you stayed on the computer too long where I grew up. It's a weapon AND a tool, make no mistake.
- robonerd 4y ago
  Just to be clear, we're talking about combining a mechanical pencil and a rubber band to launch BBs, tooth picks, etc? These are "weapons" in the sense that nerf guns are, maybe enough to trigger hysterical zero tolerance rules but certainly not enough to actually threaten anybody with sense. They only have as much power as a rubber band. You can (and we did) get better results using just the rubber band stretched between your thumb and index finger. You can launch a pencil clear across the room like that.. but you could also just throw the pencil. Treating these as real weapons, let alone zip-guns, is an absolute farce. Zero tolerance means zero thought.
  - dontbenebby 4y ago
    >Treating these as real weapons, let alone zip-guns, is an absolute farce. Zero tolerance means zero thought. Agreed, but unfortunately no one ever gave me a stable job where I could post stuff like that from. I've bounced from precarious role to precarious role for over a decade.
  - defterGoose 4y ago
    While I generally agree with the points you make, I have to disagree that there's zero difference between "throwing a pebble [toothpick, pencil, etc]" and making an improvised device to launch a projectile. Sure, you could put out an eye either way, but only one of those methods is designed specifically with the goal of accurate, repeatable assault. You could very well define such a device as a weapon, whereas defining someone's arms as weapons is trickier based on their use cases and legal precedent. If I throw a pencil and it sticks in someone's eye it was a freak accident and I'm only liable up to that standard. If I shoot a person in the eye with an improvised device, then it's much easier to argue that I meant to do it.
    - dontbenebby 4y ago
      >If I throw a pencil and it sticks in someone's eye it was a freak accident and I'm only liable up to that standard. That's a folk belief. If you throw a pencil like that in my left eye, I might use the right one to aim the shot that kills you, and in Pennsylvania I'd be legally in the right under stand your ground, as well as several other states. Please don't confuse your opinions about ethics with very well tested facts about how the world works, you could get yourself killed, and if I didn't care about that I'd let you continue on your dangerous path of thinking. No one is obligated to tolerate violence, and I worry that those who refuse to understand that are a danger to themselves AND others via the chaos they induce.

PeterHolzwarth 4y ago

What you are describing is not a zip gun. A zip gun is an improvised firearm that typically, but not always, fires pistol cartridges (rifle or shotgun cartridge zip guns can and have been made, but they can be more sketchy to use and control). Zip guns are cobbled together from a pipe and some basic form of firing mechanism, etc.

dontbenebby 4y ago
Thanks, you're correct, I apologize for being imprecise in my language. It's an improvised weapon... a zip gun like they taught us about in middle school English class would be more like if I used a mousetrap to trigger a .22 magnum shell down a short shaped piece of pipe into someone's skull from a range of under five yards, since the unrifled barrel causes whatever comes out to tumble and thus not fly straight very long.