4 ms·

Perhaps unpopular opinion but I think HS2 is the correct option. Firstly, more capacity is needed on the rail network and this is a key arterial route that is a

Perhaps unpopular opinion but I think HS2 is the correct option. Firstly, more capacity is needed on the rail network and this is a key arterial route that is already running at/over capacity. Secondly, it'll allow freight to be added to the existing slower lines, which is key for decarbonisation. Finally, if you're going to build new railway lines, you might as well build something that isn't immediately obsolete. The alternative is to build something that is fast-but-not-quite-high-speed, which means not using what is essentially industry standard for new rail lines. It would be a bizarre choice.

pharmakom 4y ago
I support HS2 but as an alternative to more road building. Unfortunately the government seems to have chosen both!
scrlk 4y ago
>Firstly, more capacity is needed on the rail network and this is a key arterial route that is already running at/over capacity. I always found it bizarre that most of the press around HS2 never really mentions the capacity issues of the West Coast Main Line. Most people will ask "why spend £100 bn to shave 30 mins off London - Birmingham, can't you just upgrade the existing lines?", which IMO is a fair question to ask. They need to do a better job of explaining why it's not practical to upgrade the WCML & why building a new line is the better long term solution.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  I use the WCML a lot and it's pretty rickety. Parts of it are like a rollercoaster. I'm not sure you can go any faster on it and I guess it can't be straightened and levelled as (like most of the UK) the terrain is congested.
  - vinay427 4y ago
    Out of curiosity, which parts are these? I’ve used it up to Preston several times and didn’t notice much out of the ordinary (compared to trains in Switzerland, for instance).
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      There's definitely twenty minutes south of Crewe where I have to put my laptop away or I'll feel sick, and can't have a full cup of tea on the table without a lid.
  - scrlk 4y ago
    There were plans under British Rail [0] and Railtrack [1] to push running above 125 mph via realignments & resignalling. Virgin Trains proposed running at 135 mph via the Tilt Authorisation and Speed Supervision system [2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250#Project_scope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250#Project_scope [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Modernistion_by_Network_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Modernist... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Increased_line_speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Increased...
    - tialaramex 4y ago
      A major problem you run into is that you really want in-cab signalling at these speeds and you might well do speed signalling when you take a big upgrade like that. A lineside position lamp arrangement which indicates "Caution: The next signal is at: Caution: The next signal is at: Caution: The next signal is at: DANGER" blurring past at 140mph is too much for humans to reliably appreciate their import and react to it in an efficient fashion. Trains on HS1 have TVM or equivalent, in-cab signalling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Voie-Machine#Cab_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Voie-Machine#Cab_... - you can see at a glance that the computer says you're going 269kph, the limit here is still 270kph, but the signals indicate the limit ahead will be 220kph so you should be braking.
- was_a_dev 4y ago
  The inevitable happened with HS2. They scraped it heading further north. Now it is just a project to get to London quicker
  - M2Ys4U 4y ago
    They scrapped half of it going North - the Western leg to Manchester is still happening (although the government is refusing to allow for a proper station configuration at Manchester Piccadilly...)
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    I live in the North and I'd love to be able to get across the Pennines more quickly, and to be able to get to places like Leeds and Newcastle quickly. But being realistic.... 90% of business, social, and civic activity is in London so that's where I need to get quickly.
    - jfk13 4y ago
      > 90% of business, social, and civic activity is in London And that imbalance is what we really should be trying to fix. Will HS2 make any difference? I don't know... [edit to add: speaking as one who lives less than 60 miles from central London.]
    - brigandish 4y ago
      That's at least partly because London already has the best transport infrastructure. If other places had better infrastructure then they should attract more business and more of your attention.
- 7952 4y ago
  Or the slow speeds on some of the other "mainlines" into London. Bournemouth is less than 100 miles and takes 2hrs+.

pharmakom 4y ago

I support HS2 but as an alternative to more road building. Unfortunately the government seems to have chosen both!

scrlk 4y ago

>Firstly, more capacity is needed on the rail network and this is a key arterial route that is already running at/over capacity. I always found it bizarre that most of the press around HS2 never really mentions the capacity issues of the West Coast Main Line. Most people will ask "why spend £100 bn to shave 30 mins off London - Birmingham, can't you just upgrade the existing lines?", which IMO is a fair question to ask. They need to do a better job of explaining why it's not practical to upgrade the WCML & why building a new line is the better long term solution.

chrisseaton 4y ago
I use the WCML a lot and it's pretty rickety. Parts of it are like a rollercoaster. I'm not sure you can go any faster on it and I guess it can't be straightened and levelled as (like most of the UK) the terrain is congested.
- vinay427 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, which parts are these? I’ve used it up to Preston several times and didn’t notice much out of the ordinary (compared to trains in Switzerland, for instance).
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    There's definitely twenty minutes south of Crewe where I have to put my laptop away or I'll feel sick, and can't have a full cup of tea on the table without a lid.
- scrlk 4y ago
  There were plans under British Rail [0] and Railtrack [1] to push running above 125 mph via realignments & resignalling. Virgin Trains proposed running at 135 mph via the Tilt Authorisation and Speed Supervision system [2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250#Project_scope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250#Project_scope [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Modernistion_by_Network_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Modernist... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Increased_line_speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line#Increased...
  - tialaramex 4y ago
    A major problem you run into is that you really want in-cab signalling at these speeds and you might well do speed signalling when you take a big upgrade like that. A lineside position lamp arrangement which indicates "Caution: The next signal is at: Caution: The next signal is at: Caution: The next signal is at: DANGER" blurring past at 140mph is too much for humans to reliably appreciate their import and react to it in an efficient fashion. Trains on HS1 have TVM or equivalent, in-cab signalling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Voie-Machine#Cab_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Voie-Machine#Cab_... - you can see at a glance that the computer says you're going 269kph, the limit here is still 270kph, but the signals indicate the limit ahead will be 220kph so you should be braking.
was_a_dev 4y ago
The inevitable happened with HS2. They scraped it heading further north. Now it is just a project to get to London quicker
- M2Ys4U 4y ago
  They scrapped half of it going North - the Western leg to Manchester is still happening (although the government is refusing to allow for a proper station configuration at Manchester Piccadilly...)
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  I live in the North and I'd love to be able to get across the Pennines more quickly, and to be able to get to places like Leeds and Newcastle quickly. But being realistic.... 90% of business, social, and civic activity is in London so that's where I need to get quickly.
  - jfk13 4y ago
    > 90% of business, social, and civic activity is in London And that imbalance is what we really should be trying to fix. Will HS2 make any difference? I don't know... [edit to add: speaking as one who lives less than 60 miles from central London.]
  - brigandish 4y ago
    That's at least partly because London already has the best transport infrastructure. If other places had better infrastructure then they should attract more business and more of your attention.
7952 4y ago
Or the slow speeds on some of the other "mainlines" into London. Bournemouth is less than 100 miles and takes 2hrs+.