5 ms·

That's 1 year of compensation for 18+ years of part-time labor, in countries with the most parental leave

knorker 4y ago
Name any other life choice one can spend 18+ years on (that'd be all of them) that gifts a year of tax funded compensation. That is my point.
paulcole 4y ago
So you’re not disagreeing that it’s compensated? What decision(s) can a non-parent make to get 1 year of compensation like parents get?
- shadowfiend 4y ago
  A non-parent can also raise a child for 1 year and get 1 year of compensation.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  The point appears to be that a year of compensation is pitiful even if one considers the 18y effort part time. Having young kids I think it's more like full time parenting, on top of any regular day job. Unless you can find a spouse willing to do all the kid work, which is like non-stop 12-16h days until all are in school. Heaven forbid your SO wants to homeschool and expects you to do at least 40% of parenting, with your day job.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    Right, but that wasn’t the point being made. Regardless of the ROI, choosing to be a parent is something that’s compensated.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Said another way, the compensation is pitiful. And one gives up so much time and energy being a parent, unless you're wealthy enough to outsource large chunks of the work. (Daycare in the US is 10-25K per year.)
      - paulcole 4y ago
        > Said another way, the compensation is pitiful. The whole point is that being a parent is compensated in a way that no other choice is. Parents take on a significant burden. They are compensated for it. There is no choice I can make as a non-parent that will provide me with similar compensation.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Can you define what compensation you see as so exclusive to parenting? If just this financial support provided by some governments then consider you could take on a very low pay job with a nonprofit and get similar 'compensation'. Albeit spread across the length of that career instead of front loaded as paternity leave/credits.
        paulcole 4y ago
        Parental leave is exclusive to parenting. See the original comment: > Some countries give more than a year paid parental leave You yourself are making my point by saying “similar compensation” “albeit spread across the length of a career.” There is nothing for non-parents that is equivalent to parental leave.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Thanks for clarifying your perspective. Honestly it just seems very narrow and pedantic since even non-parents benefit from efforts to blunt the incredible costs of parenting. It leads to quality of life improvements, even if modest, for families. Non-parents themselves, and all their friends, love interests, and family have to come from parents somehow. If society does nothing to help then more parents will choose to have fewer, or no, children. And these leave benefits are just so miniscule compared to the effort and finances required for each child. So why complain about missing them?
jjeaff 4y ago
Raising kids is full time labor considering that even when you are off, you are on call.
- jseban 4y ago
  The issue that I'm having with this, is that child care is still relatively unqualified work, so how can it ever be highly compensated? Parents who are highly educated doctors, pilots etc argue that they should be able to stay at home for 1-2 years with almost full salary, which the tax payers should subsidise, and at the same time they also pay an uneducated 16 year old 10 bucks an hour to babysit when they go to the movies? And you have 1 educated child care professional easily caring for 10 small children, and making a very modest salary. It doesn't really add up.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    Well, what you are saying doesn't add up because no one is really asking for 1-2 years of parental leave.

Name any other life choice one can spend 18+ years on (that'd be all of them) that gifts a year of tax funded compensation. That is my point.

paulcole 4y ago

So you’re not disagreeing that it’s compensated? What decision(s) can a non-parent make to get 1 year of compensation like parents get?

shadowfiend 4y ago
A non-parent can also raise a child for 1 year and get 1 year of compensation.
paulryanrogers 4y ago
The point appears to be that a year of compensation is pitiful even if one considers the 18y effort part time. Having young kids I think it's more like full time parenting, on top of any regular day job. Unless you can find a spouse willing to do all the kid work, which is like non-stop 12-16h days until all are in school. Heaven forbid your SO wants to homeschool and expects you to do at least 40% of parenting, with your day job.
- paulcole 4y ago
  Right, but that wasn’t the point being made. Regardless of the ROI, choosing to be a parent is something that’s compensated.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Said another way, the compensation is pitiful. And one gives up so much time and energy being a parent, unless you're wealthy enough to outsource large chunks of the work. (Daycare in the US is 10-25K per year.)
    - paulcole 4y ago
      > Said another way, the compensation is pitiful. The whole point is that being a parent is compensated in a way that no other choice is. Parents take on a significant burden. They are compensated for it. There is no choice I can make as a non-parent that will provide me with similar compensation.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Can you define what compensation you see as so exclusive to parenting? If just this financial support provided by some governments then consider you could take on a very low pay job with a nonprofit and get similar 'compensation'. Albeit spread across the length of that career instead of front loaded as paternity leave/credits.
        paulcole 4y ago
        Parental leave is exclusive to parenting. See the original comment: > Some countries give more than a year paid parental leave You yourself are making my point by saying “similar compensation” “albeit spread across the length of a career.” There is nothing for non-parents that is equivalent to parental leave.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Thanks for clarifying your perspective. Honestly it just seems very narrow and pedantic since even non-parents benefit from efforts to blunt the incredible costs of parenting. It leads to quality of life improvements, even if modest, for families. Non-parents themselves, and all their friends, love interests, and family have to come from parents somehow. If society does nothing to help then more parents will choose to have fewer, or no, children. And these leave benefits are just so miniscule compared to the effort and finances required for each child. So why complain about missing them?

jjeaff 4y ago

Raising kids is full time labor considering that even when you are off, you are on call.

jseban 4y ago
The issue that I'm having with this, is that child care is still relatively unqualified work, so how can it ever be highly compensated? Parents who are highly educated doctors, pilots etc argue that they should be able to stay at home for 1-2 years with almost full salary, which the tax payers should subsidise, and at the same time they also pay an uneducated 16 year old 10 bucks an hour to babysit when they go to the movies? And you have 1 educated child care professional easily caring for 10 small children, and making a very modest salary. It doesn't really add up.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  Well, what you are saying doesn't add up because no one is really asking for 1-2 years of parental leave.