6 ms·

There was a bunch of articles about this in 2020. After looking into the data my conclusion is the threat is overblown (big surprise), a large part of it is fr

There was a bunch of articles about this in 2020. After looking into the data my conclusion is the threat is overblown (big surprise), a large part of it is from cooking of any kind (heating produces particulates) and that if you take some basic precautions (open a window, use vent fan) the risk is very low.

qiskit 4y ago
Makes me wonder whether these stories are paid advertising ( by electric stove companies or whomever ) or the journalist had to write something and just winged it. I'm guessing most garbage in media is paid advertising, but who knows at this point.
taeric 4y ago
Yeah, I can't but think the headline is true, but then leads immediately to, "but not as hazardous as you are now thinking."
i80and 4y ago
It is extremely common, even default in the US in my experience, to not have vent fans not actually... vent. As a renter, I don't really get a choice in the matter. Opening a window significantly is also pretty unfeasible most of the year.
- rascul 4y ago
  I see many of them that simply vent into the attic. This requires a properly vented attic, and has the downside of introducing moisture into the attic, which can lead to damage. That said, mobile homes pretty much always vent outside in my experience.
  - stefan_ 4y ago
    A lot of them do not vent at all. They just draw it up through a coarse filter and out the top again.
    - rascul 4y ago
      Yes, I see those too. I work on houses for a living though and those are not too common, at least around here. I typically might see those in the older houses, or in half assed renovations.
- Spivak 4y ago
  In new construction people are installing those microwave vents that literally do nothing except blow the air out the top of the microwave. It’s not totally worthless but it’s next to worthless.
  - mastax 4y ago
    Then the cabinets above the microwave get coated with a sticky layer of polymerized(?) oil - even quicker than they normally would. It's gross.
  - 2ICofafireteam 4y ago
    New construction person in B.C. here. We use them all the time and if they're not vented properly, we don't get occupancy. The HVAC designer or Engineer on the job wouldn't have it any other way.
  - ChoGGi 4y ago
    Microwaves can vent if you hook up its vent to a duct, cheap construction doesn't do that if they can get away with it.
    - Spivak 4y ago
      Yes and no, while I suppose you could technically attach a vent to the top half of the microwave and route it outside the upper vents are absolutely not designed for that and you would have the most awkward ugly installation that blocks your upper cabinet doors. So yes the reason for these units is 100% penny pinching and cheap construction but better construction alone won’t fix the problems with these microwaves.
      - ChoGGi 4y ago
        "you would have the most awkward ugly installation that blocks your upper cabinet doors" No, you route it through the cabinet and if you don't want it to look ugly then you build a chase around it. I usually don't since the chase takes up more room, and no one really cares as it's in the cabinet. And yes they are designed for venting outside, that's what these are for: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-3-1-4-in-x-10-in-x-7-in-Hood-Transition-Fan-Boot-FB3-25X10X7/100126594 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-3-1-4-in-x-10-in-x-7...
- cplusplusfellow 4y ago
  Do you also have a gas stove? I’ve lived in lots of places that have unvented blowers but none of them had gas. Would be against code in almost every city in America.
  - tssva 4y ago
    The last 2 houses I have lived in both had gas stoves and unvented blowers. Both recently built.
  - i80and 4y ago
    Yep, gas stove unfortunately. I can't speak to code, but most people I talk to share this experience -- I assume there's grandfathering at play.
    - lupire 4y ago
      It's just illegal and no one complained or enforced.
      - 2ICofafireteam 4y ago
        Where I am, it's called non-conforming and, unless there's a complaint, it doesn't become a problem until you pull a building permit AND a Building Official notices.
      - tssva 4y ago
        I just looked it up and section M1503.1 of the 2018 International Mechanical Code has an exception for range hoods which allows most to be used ductless. Some states, CA for example, don't allow this but the majority of states just follow the IMC code.
  - asveikau 4y ago
    How much maintenance do those fans require to keep working well? I feel like the common thing is to basically not touch them, and they get pretty gross and don't seem to do much. Edit: I got downvoted for this? I feel like I've seen a lifetime of these fans being decades old and in poor shape. I think you folks are vastly overestimating how many people clean those or replace the filter.
- maccard 4y ago
  Those fans can be installed in two ways, venting or recirculating. In a recirculation mode you need to keep the filters clean, and they do an _ok_ job at keeping smells out of the kitchen, but if they don't vent outdoors then you need to open a window unfortunately
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
julianeon 4y ago
I live in a part of California where the air is bad for a significant portion of the year - no less than one tenth to one quarter of the year. So opening the window wouldn’t save me from particulates & pollution - in fact, it would introduce them. The only solution for us is to not introduce them in the first place.
- kurthr 4y ago
  I'd highly recommend putting together one of these very effective and inexpensive ($40?) air filters. Just taping filters together around a box fan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box We used one them during the horrific fires with excellent effect.
riddleronroof 4y ago
Exactly. These are opinion pieces with scary headlines. Almost nothing to back them up. Also strange to talk about developing countries having problems. They usually have chimneys. Hydrochlorides are there because of pans coated with them that burn them off. Guess what, they still end up in food no matter which heating you would use. So the problem is pans, not the heat. Cooking with fire is Lindy. And there is no other way to make rotis, tatziki (char the eggplant) and other things without fire.
- deepdmistry 4y ago
  Although i agree that gas cooktops have several advantages in cooking non westernized meals, rotis can definitely be made on induction. Been making them since many years now.
  - snapplebobapple 4y ago
    got a recipe/walkthrough? I love me some roti, am tired of paying for the stuff made in the big oven/cooker things though. I have an induction cooktop already.
    - samarthr1 4y ago
      Make a soft dough with flour (ideally whole wheat), water, salt. Kneed thoroughly. List of sit for about 1/2 hour, in a bowl, covered with a cloth. Make smallish balls of of the dough. Dust a flat, hard surface with left over flour, roll into a thin disk of even thickness. The size is less important than the evenness in thickness. Heat a pan, until a small amount of ghee/butter melts when placed on it. Place the roti on the pan, and cook each side. You will know that it is done when the roti slightly puffs up. True skill is in making rotis which stay soft in a hotbox.
- tootie 4y ago
  That last part is definitely not true. You can char stuff with any heat. I use an electric broiler.
- morsch 4y ago
tootie 4y ago
Can you share some of that data? It seems pretty obvious that burning gas is far worse for indoor air quality than a magnet. Even if there's options to mitigate the danger, they won't always be available or users may just forget to take them. An induction stove is foolproof. And I think your point about particulates from actual cooking is probably true too. I think any high heat cooking or deep frying should be done outside if you don't have a powerful vent.
sieabahlpark 4y ago
bingohbangoh 4y ago
I'm fairly certain this piece is meant to drum up support for gas stove bans in places like Los Angeles or NYC. Too coincidental. Certainly inspired by it. If you really believe that gas is awful for environment, that more solar and thus electricity should be used, you'd find the reasons to justify it even as brownouts threaten the AC for a good part of Summer.
norvvryo 4y ago
Even without those precautions, how does the risk compare to commuting to work by car five days a week? I imagine the risk of chronic effects is orders of magnitude less.
Glench 4y ago
On the other hand, here is some actual data a guy took in his kitchen showing that the indoor air quality was as bad as the big wildfires near his house: https://twitter.com/curious_founder/status/1481746460378992641 https://twitter.com/curious_founder/status/14817464603789926...

qiskit 4y ago

Makes me wonder whether these stories are paid advertising ( by electric stove companies or whomever ) or the journalist had to write something and just winged it. I'm guessing most garbage in media is paid advertising, but who knows at this point.

taeric 4y ago

Yeah, I can't but think the headline is true, but then leads immediately to, "but not as hazardous as you are now thinking."

i80and 4y ago

It is extremely common, even default in the US in my experience, to not have vent fans not actually... vent. As a renter, I don't really get a choice in the matter. Opening a window significantly is also pretty unfeasible most of the year.

rascul 4y ago
I see many of them that simply vent into the attic. This requires a properly vented attic, and has the downside of introducing moisture into the attic, which can lead to damage. That said, mobile homes pretty much always vent outside in my experience.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  A lot of them do not vent at all. They just draw it up through a coarse filter and out the top again.
  - rascul 4y ago
    Yes, I see those too. I work on houses for a living though and those are not too common, at least around here. I typically might see those in the older houses, or in half assed renovations.
Spivak 4y ago
In new construction people are installing those microwave vents that literally do nothing except blow the air out the top of the microwave. It’s not totally worthless but it’s next to worthless.
- mastax 4y ago
  Then the cabinets above the microwave get coated with a sticky layer of polymerized(?) oil - even quicker than they normally would. It's gross.
- 2ICofafireteam 4y ago
  New construction person in B.C. here. We use them all the time and if they're not vented properly, we don't get occupancy. The HVAC designer or Engineer on the job wouldn't have it any other way.
- ChoGGi 4y ago
  Microwaves can vent if you hook up its vent to a duct, cheap construction doesn't do that if they can get away with it.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Yes and no, while I suppose you could technically attach a vent to the top half of the microwave and route it outside the upper vents are absolutely not designed for that and you would have the most awkward ugly installation that blocks your upper cabinet doors. So yes the reason for these units is 100% penny pinching and cheap construction but better construction alone won’t fix the problems with these microwaves.
    - ChoGGi 4y ago
      "you would have the most awkward ugly installation that blocks your upper cabinet doors" No, you route it through the cabinet and if you don't want it to look ugly then you build a chase around it. I usually don't since the chase takes up more room, and no one really cares as it's in the cabinet. And yes they are designed for venting outside, that's what these are for: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-3-1-4-in-x-10-in-x-7-in-Hood-Transition-Fan-Boot-FB3-25X10X7/100126594 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-3-1-4-in-x-10-in-x-7...
cplusplusfellow 4y ago
Do you also have a gas stove? I’ve lived in lots of places that have unvented blowers but none of them had gas. Would be against code in almost every city in America.
- tssva 4y ago
  The last 2 houses I have lived in both had gas stoves and unvented blowers. Both recently built.
- i80and 4y ago
  Yep, gas stove unfortunately. I can't speak to code, but most people I talk to share this experience -- I assume there's grandfathering at play.
  - lupire 4y ago
    It's just illegal and no one complained or enforced.
    - 2ICofafireteam 4y ago
      Where I am, it's called non-conforming and, unless there's a complaint, it doesn't become a problem until you pull a building permit AND a Building Official notices.
    - tssva 4y ago
      I just looked it up and section M1503.1 of the 2018 International Mechanical Code has an exception for range hoods which allows most to be used ductless. Some states, CA for example, don't allow this but the majority of states just follow the IMC code.
- asveikau 4y ago
  How much maintenance do those fans require to keep working well? I feel like the common thing is to basically not touch them, and they get pretty gross and don't seem to do much. Edit: I got downvoted for this? I feel like I've seen a lifetime of these fans being decades old and in poor shape. I think you folks are vastly overestimating how many people clean those or replace the filter.
maccard 4y ago
Those fans can be installed in two ways, venting or recirculating. In a recirculation mode you need to keep the filters clean, and they do an _ok_ job at keeping smells out of the kitchen, but if they don't vent outdoors then you need to open a window unfortunately

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

julianeon 4y ago

I live in a part of California where the air is bad for a significant portion of the year - no less than one tenth to one quarter of the year. So opening the window wouldn’t save me from particulates & pollution - in fact, it would introduce them. The only solution for us is to not introduce them in the first place.

kurthr 4y ago
I'd highly recommend putting together one of these very effective and inexpensive ($40?) air filters. Just taping filters together around a box fan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box We used one them during the horrific fires with excellent effect.

riddleronroof 4y ago

Exactly. These are opinion pieces with scary headlines. Almost nothing to back them up. Also strange to talk about developing countries having problems. They usually have chimneys. Hydrochlorides are there because of pans coated with them that burn them off. Guess what, they still end up in food no matter which heating you would use. So the problem is pans, not the heat. Cooking with fire is Lindy. And there is no other way to make rotis, tatziki (char the eggplant) and other things without fire.

deepdmistry 4y ago
Although i agree that gas cooktops have several advantages in cooking non westernized meals, rotis can definitely be made on induction. Been making them since many years now.
- snapplebobapple 4y ago
  got a recipe/walkthrough? I love me some roti, am tired of paying for the stuff made in the big oven/cooker things though. I have an induction cooktop already.
  - samarthr1 4y ago
    Make a soft dough with flour (ideally whole wheat), water, salt. Kneed thoroughly. List of sit for about 1/2 hour, in a bowl, covered with a cloth. Make smallish balls of of the dough. Dust a flat, hard surface with left over flour, roll into a thin disk of even thickness. The size is less important than the evenness in thickness. Heat a pan, until a small amount of ghee/butter melts when placed on it. Place the roti on the pan, and cook each side. You will know that it is done when the roti slightly puffs up. True skill is in making rotis which stay soft in a hotbox.
tootie 4y ago
That last part is definitely not true. You can char stuff with any heat. I use an electric broiler.
morsch 4y ago

tootie 4y ago

Can you share some of that data? It seems pretty obvious that burning gas is far worse for indoor air quality than a magnet. Even if there's options to mitigate the danger, they won't always be available or users may just forget to take them. An induction stove is foolproof. And I think your point about particulates from actual cooking is probably true too. I think any high heat cooking or deep frying should be done outside if you don't have a powerful vent.

sieabahlpark 4y ago

bingohbangoh 4y ago

I'm fairly certain this piece is meant to drum up support for gas stove bans in places like Los Angeles or NYC. Too coincidental. Certainly inspired by it. If you really believe that gas is awful for environment, that more solar and thus electricity should be used, you'd find the reasons to justify it even as brownouts threaten the AC for a good part of Summer.

norvvryo 4y ago

Even without those precautions, how does the risk compare to commuting to work by car five days a week? I imagine the risk of chronic effects is orders of magnitude less.

Glench 4y ago

On the other hand, here is some actual data a guy took in his kitchen showing that the indoor air quality was as bad as the big wildfires near his house: https://twitter.com/curious_founder/status/1481746460378992641 https://twitter.com/curious_founder/status/14817464603789926...