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>Now I just work hard enough. My review from management actually got much better once I stopped knocking myself out working too hard and instead worked just en

by Isamu 4y ago

>Now I just work hard enough. My review from management actually got much better once I stopped knocking myself out working too hard and instead worked just enough. That was a pivotal moment for me. That and also learning how to manage your manager.

iboisvert 4y ago
Would you be able to share some tips or sources on managing your manager? It sounds like a really valuable skill
- silksowed 4y ago
  https://www.notion.so/Manage-your-manager-26a26b82bd824f97bf44de754d79a94f https://www.notion.so/Manage-your-manager-26a26b82bd824f97bf... found this link on HN a while back but never really put it into practice. could be useful could not
- camjohnson26 4y ago
  I had a similar realization, but it’s not really about working hard vs. not working hard, it’s about knowing what’s important to your manager. Early in my career I would never say no to any task, and would give the time estimate I thought the manager wanted, and then work over time to get it done. Half the time the finished product had bugs, got delivered too late, or ended up not matching what the client wanted, so the “hard work” didn’t translate directly into success. Now I try to figure out what the client’s actual needs are and how to meet them as quickly and with as little work as possible, and when something is requiring overtime, I immediately stop working on it and communicate that it’s a bigger issue than expected, and either push the project, get additional engineers, or find a different way to solve the issue. I think programmers really enjoy solving problems and we never like to admit that something is more difficult than we expected because we feel like we failed, but actually that’s just an expected part of the job. Obviously this only works if you have a good manager who actually cares about results. Bad managers are easy to manipulate because you just optimize for whatever BS metric they’ve decided is important, but those jobs are soul crushing.
travisgriggs 4y ago
So instead of working hard at your tasks, you worked hard at playing your manager. Seems like a “law of conservation of working hard” to me; you just needed the right kind of working hard.
- Isamu 4y ago
  >worked hard at playing your manager No. Instead of working until my head exploded (and my manager telling me I wasn’t showing “a sense of urgency”) I focused on doing the right thing, and part of that is helping your manager succeed.
  - oarabbus_ 4y ago
    I'd once heard a piece of advice that was along the lines of "regardless of what it may say the duties are on paper your actual job is to make your manager look smart for having you on the team"
boppo1 4y ago
seconding the request on 'Tips for Managing your Manager'.
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  As long there's a common understanding of the goal of the company it's easy. The tricky part is to get the manager to manage the upstream managers and across departments.

by Isamu 4y ago

iboisvert 4y ago

Would you be able to share some tips or sources on managing your manager? It sounds like a really valuable skill

silksowed 4y ago
https://www.notion.so/Manage-your-manager-26a26b82bd824f97bf44de754d79a94f https://www.notion.so/Manage-your-manager-26a26b82bd824f97bf... found this link on HN a while back but never really put it into practice. could be useful could not
camjohnson26 4y ago
I had a similar realization, but it’s not really about working hard vs. not working hard, it’s about knowing what’s important to your manager. Early in my career I would never say no to any task, and would give the time estimate I thought the manager wanted, and then work over time to get it done. Half the time the finished product had bugs, got delivered too late, or ended up not matching what the client wanted, so the “hard work” didn’t translate directly into success. Now I try to figure out what the client’s actual needs are and how to meet them as quickly and with as little work as possible, and when something is requiring overtime, I immediately stop working on it and communicate that it’s a bigger issue than expected, and either push the project, get additional engineers, or find a different way to solve the issue. I think programmers really enjoy solving problems and we never like to admit that something is more difficult than we expected because we feel like we failed, but actually that’s just an expected part of the job. Obviously this only works if you have a good manager who actually cares about results. Bad managers are easy to manipulate because you just optimize for whatever BS metric they’ve decided is important, but those jobs are soul crushing.

travisgriggs 4y ago

So instead of working hard at your tasks, you worked hard at playing your manager. Seems like a “law of conservation of working hard” to me; you just needed the right kind of working hard.

Isamu 4y ago
>worked hard at playing your manager No. Instead of working until my head exploded (and my manager telling me I wasn’t showing “a sense of urgency”) I focused on doing the right thing, and part of that is helping your manager succeed.
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  I'd once heard a piece of advice that was along the lines of "regardless of what it may say the duties are on paper your actual job is to make your manager look smart for having you on the team"

boppo1 4y ago

seconding the request on 'Tips for Managing your Manager'.

someweirdperson 4y ago
As long there's a common understanding of the goal of the company it's easy. The tricky part is to get the manager to manage the upstream managers and across departments.