3 ms·

>The stance of NL and belgium of just banning all games that have gambling elements, is truly the only path forward. It means that you, the user, don't get to

>The stance of NL and belgium of just banning all games that have gambling elements, is truly the only path forward. It means that you, the user, don't get to play the games you want to play or it will have no effect. Publishers will figure out ways around it and you're never going to stamp it out as long as there is demand for it. I don't like Diablo Immortal's monetization, so I don't play it. I suggest everyone else should do the exact same thing. If you're a parent then you should forbid your kid from playing games like that too. Getting lawmakers involved in regular video games is just going to end in disaster. They're not exactly known for making sensible laws or even understanding the subject matter.

DandyDev 4y ago
"Going to end in disaster" -> that's hyperbole The fact that the Belgian and Dutch governments label these predatory microtransaction schemes as gambling, shows that they understand the subject matter perfectly fine. Yes, you and I can sensibly choose not to play those games or spend money on them. But lots of people can't. That's why laws regulating gambling exist. Nobody is saying that you can't play these games. Those gaming companies just have to accept that their products are a form of gambling and will be regulated and taxed as such.
- Aerroon 4y ago
  >Nobody is saying that you can't play these games. The Dutch and Belgian government quite literally are saying that you can't though. Of course, in practice it just means Dutch and Belgian players will pretend they're from another European country via VPN. >Those gaming companies just have to accept that their products are a form of gambling and will be regulated and taxed as such. I'm not sure if you're saying this in bad faith, are ignorant of gambling laws or truly believe this. If you were to regulate video games with gambling laws then that video game ceases to exist. Nobody can afford to publish even a remotely complex game while following gambling regulations, because every single country makes their own rules on that. You would essentially be creating a game for one country only. And at that point why bother? Just push out another actual slotmachine. You cut development costs by multiple orders of magnitude and increase accessibility of the game. Of course, in practice the countries that regulate it would just be banned. And the players would play the game via VPN. Also, what I'm saying is that when dozens of countries come up with new rules some of them are going to do something stupid with them. You're asking for legally mandated region locks in gaming. Just to be clear, I don't like these games either. I hate that game companies do this.
  - DandyDev 4y ago
    No, the Dutch and Belgian governments are saying you CAN play the game as long as it's changed to remove gambling aspects or is sold as a gambling product with all the consequences that entails. Activision Blizzard doesn't want to do that. Not the fault of governments And as for the (im)possibility to develop games that follow the laws of all countries: that had been successfully done for decades. It just doesn't involve predatory microtransactions
    - Aerroon 4y ago
      >No, the Dutch and Belgian governments are saying you CAN play the game as long as it's changed to remove gambling aspects or is sold as a gambling product with all the consequences that entails. In other words, they're saying that you cannot play the game. >Activision Blizzard doesn't want to do that. Not the fault of governments If I were Dutch and wanted to play the game, then it wouldn't be Blizzard stopping me from playing. It would be the Dutch government. That is quite literally their fault. The Dutch government is saying that they know how I should live my life better than I do. >And as for the (im)possibility to develop games that follow the laws of all countries: that had been successfully done for decades. It just doesn't involve predatory microtransactions Yeah, good luck with that. Hope you have some extremely deep pockets to fund it yourself, because nobody's going to invest in it if the projected returns suck. Video game prices have stayed at the same level or even decreased over the years while costs to develop have gone up, because players aren't willing to pay the inflation adjusted price for them. They also expect way more complex technical work on the games. And even when you make all that work the players will still jump to games like Diablo Immortal instead, regardless whether your local government bans the game or not. Getting around region locks in gaming isn't exactly new.
  - throwaway17_17 4y ago
    I truly do not mean this as a flippant response to your comment, but there is a very simple solution to the problem you are envisioning coming from these regulations. Developers could just make a game with no micro transactions. The only way your ‘issues’ exist, is if these games are only made to make money via the gambling mechanics that are being regulated. Want your game available everywhere … just make a game that people can pay for and play.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
This is obviously not going to work. You'd have to be thoroughly conditioned against government intervention to even briefly entertain the notion that it might. "Well, if I just don't buy any drugs, that'll take care of the problem." Obviously, government interventions can have negative impacts (see drugs parallel again) but the answer is encouraging sensible regulation, not pretending, against all evidence, that it can't work.
- Aerroon 4y ago
  What is "all the evidence that it can work"? Drugs are a perfect example where governments have spent a century destroying people's lives with harebrained regulation. And yet all that it has done is empowered bloodthirsty cartels in developing countries. It hasn't improved the drug situation at all, regardless how much money we've poured into it. As far as I can tell, gambling laws don't stop gambling either. In fact, it's usually the government that's the biggest provider of gambling services (the lottery). It seems like it's more about eliminating competition than anything else.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
_ph_ 4y ago
Anti-gambling laws are not vidoe-game specific, at best they just have to be adjusted to cover them correctly. And these kind of laws are pretty obvious so I don't see why there shouldn't be sensible working laws. There are several reasons for such laws. First of all, not everyone is good at self-control. Then, there is the big problem of this kind of games making so much money, that the alternatives are dying out. In my eyes, mobile gaming already is pretty much dead. There is too much money being made by games which coerce the user into spending more money. This limits the choices and drives more people into these games, even if they have some resistance.

DandyDev 4y ago

"Going to end in disaster" -> that's hyperbole The fact that the Belgian and Dutch governments label these predatory microtransaction schemes as gambling, shows that they understand the subject matter perfectly fine. Yes, you and I can sensibly choose not to play those games or spend money on them. But lots of people can't. That's why laws regulating gambling exist. Nobody is saying that you can't play these games. Those gaming companies just have to accept that their products are a form of gambling and will be regulated and taxed as such.

Aerroon 4y ago
>Nobody is saying that you can't play these games. The Dutch and Belgian government quite literally are saying that you can't though. Of course, in practice it just means Dutch and Belgian players will pretend they're from another European country via VPN. >Those gaming companies just have to accept that their products are a form of gambling and will be regulated and taxed as such. I'm not sure if you're saying this in bad faith, are ignorant of gambling laws or truly believe this. If you were to regulate video games with gambling laws then that video game ceases to exist. Nobody can afford to publish even a remotely complex game while following gambling regulations, because every single country makes their own rules on that. You would essentially be creating a game for one country only. And at that point why bother? Just push out another actual slotmachine. You cut development costs by multiple orders of magnitude and increase accessibility of the game. Of course, in practice the countries that regulate it would just be banned. And the players would play the game via VPN. Also, what I'm saying is that when dozens of countries come up with new rules some of them are going to do something stupid with them. You're asking for legally mandated region locks in gaming. Just to be clear, I don't like these games either. I hate that game companies do this.
- DandyDev 4y ago
  No, the Dutch and Belgian governments are saying you CAN play the game as long as it's changed to remove gambling aspects or is sold as a gambling product with all the consequences that entails. Activision Blizzard doesn't want to do that. Not the fault of governments And as for the (im)possibility to develop games that follow the laws of all countries: that had been successfully done for decades. It just doesn't involve predatory microtransactions
  - Aerroon 4y ago
    >No, the Dutch and Belgian governments are saying you CAN play the game as long as it's changed to remove gambling aspects or is sold as a gambling product with all the consequences that entails. In other words, they're saying that you cannot play the game. >Activision Blizzard doesn't want to do that. Not the fault of governments If I were Dutch and wanted to play the game, then it wouldn't be Blizzard stopping me from playing. It would be the Dutch government. That is quite literally their fault. The Dutch government is saying that they know how I should live my life better than I do. >And as for the (im)possibility to develop games that follow the laws of all countries: that had been successfully done for decades. It just doesn't involve predatory microtransactions Yeah, good luck with that. Hope you have some extremely deep pockets to fund it yourself, because nobody's going to invest in it if the projected returns suck. Video game prices have stayed at the same level or even decreased over the years while costs to develop have gone up, because players aren't willing to pay the inflation adjusted price for them. They also expect way more complex technical work on the games. And even when you make all that work the players will still jump to games like Diablo Immortal instead, regardless whether your local government bans the game or not. Getting around region locks in gaming isn't exactly new.
- throwaway17_17 4y ago
  I truly do not mean this as a flippant response to your comment, but there is a very simple solution to the problem you are envisioning coming from these regulations. Developers could just make a game with no micro transactions. The only way your ‘issues’ exist, is if these games are only made to make money via the gambling mechanics that are being regulated. Want your game available everywhere … just make a game that people can pay for and play.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

This is obviously not going to work. You'd have to be thoroughly conditioned against government intervention to even briefly entertain the notion that it might. "Well, if I just don't buy any drugs, that'll take care of the problem." Obviously, government interventions can have negative impacts (see drugs parallel again) but the answer is encouraging sensible regulation, not pretending, against all evidence, that it can't work.

Aerroon 4y ago
What is "all the evidence that it can work"? Drugs are a perfect example where governments have spent a century destroying people's lives with harebrained regulation. And yet all that it has done is empowered bloodthirsty cartels in developing countries. It hasn't improved the drug situation at all, regardless how much money we've poured into it. As far as I can tell, gambling laws don't stop gambling either. In fact, it's usually the government that's the biggest provider of gambling services (the lottery). It seems like it's more about eliminating competition than anything else.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago

_ph_ 4y ago

Anti-gambling laws are not vidoe-game specific, at best they just have to be adjusted to cover them correctly. And these kind of laws are pretty obvious so I don't see why there shouldn't be sensible working laws. There are several reasons for such laws. First of all, not everyone is good at self-control. Then, there is the big problem of this kind of games making so much money, that the alternatives are dying out. In my eyes, mobile gaming already is pretty much dead. There is too much money being made by games which coerce the user into spending more money. This limits the choices and drives more people into these games, even if they have some resistance.