4 ms·

Do you mean by hand, with a pen? The least I would do is politely decline such an interview. I would be sorely tempted to give them the choice between letting

Do you mean by hand, with a pen? The least I would do is politely decline such an interview. I would be sorely tempted to give them the choice between letting me use a keyboard or hearing from an ADA lawyer.

codesnik 4y ago
wow. Does ADA lawyer thing work with whiteboard interviews? I'm only half-sarcastic, I hate my handwriting and this makes whiteboard interviews double hard for me.
- samatman 4y ago
  Probably not, because the ADA criterion are actually reasonable, and long handwritten essays handily fail it. Basically, don't test for something which isn't a job criterion and excludes people based on ability. An absurd example would be asking programmers to lift a 20kg sack of flour onto their shoulder and carry it across a room: this is a legal and normal thing to ask if the job involves lifting things, do it for a desk job and you'll get sued eventually. Whiteboarding is an actual part of the job at many companies, I just let them know that words will probably be illegible and muddle through it. No software job calls for handwritten pages of text, it clearly discriminates on ability and it shouldn't be a part of hiring. Simple as.
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  I wanted to add a smart remark saying that once upon a time, in better times long gone, a long time before leetcode was invented, handwriting itself was used as a criterion to hire. Then the first hit on google was a paper from 2018 about how to hire based on handwriting.
soonerroadie 4y ago
lentil_soup 4y ago
Why so aggressive? What's the problem with the pen? The idea the OP proposes is to use it as a spring board to get a discussion going, I'm sure a pen, a keyboard or a interpretive dance would all work for what they're proposing
systemvoltage 4y ago
Are there better ways to deal with this than go straight to the lawyer?
mewse 4y ago
I mean, obviously exceptions were frequently made for folks with special needs or just personal preferences. I’m aware of many times that was done for both situations. I assure you that I’m not a monster and I would really appreciate it if you’d assume positive intent in such replies.
- samatman 4y ago
  That isn't obvious at all, you explicitly say 'no computers allowed' and yeah, I consider a forty-page handwritten essay a sadistic way to find out more about a computer programmer. I don't think you're a bad person for it, and ok, good to know you're willing to make accomodations, but my reaction to being asked to do this would be sharply negative. The keyboard is inherent to the profession. Assuming you read the essay it is impossible to not judge the applicant on their penmanship. A difficult skill with absolutely no bearing on the qualification for the job. I urge anyone reading this to not offer a 40 page handwritten essay to software developers in the first place. It's an awful idea.
  - mewse 4y ago
    I have explicitly and repeatedly pointed out that individual applicants each engaged with only a very small portion out of a very large test — the entirety of which had its questions printed across 40 pages. There was obviously no “sadistic 40 page handwritten essay”; individuals engaged with whatever individual questions they wanted to, and would normally write their answers into the bits of blank space left in between the questions. I’d estimate that a normal applicant who answered ten to twenty questions would normally write substantially less than what would constitute a single page of text in total. Again, I’m not a monster. I’d really appreciate it if you’d assume positive intent and ask for clarification rather than jumping to the worst possible interpretation you can invent and then stridently declaring that you’d take legal action on the basis of the fictional “sadistic” thing you’ve chosen to believe I was making people do.
xtracto 4y ago
This post is so American: entitlement, passive aggressive and lawyers . Oh my. In most of the world a "no thanks I pass" will suffice

codesnik 4y ago

wow. Does ADA lawyer thing work with whiteboard interviews? I'm only half-sarcastic, I hate my handwriting and this makes whiteboard interviews double hard for me.

samatman 4y ago
Probably not, because the ADA criterion are actually reasonable, and long handwritten essays handily fail it. Basically, don't test for something which isn't a job criterion and excludes people based on ability. An absurd example would be asking programmers to lift a 20kg sack of flour onto their shoulder and carry it across a room: this is a legal and normal thing to ask if the job involves lifting things, do it for a desk job and you'll get sued eventually. Whiteboarding is an actual part of the job at many companies, I just let them know that words will probably be illegible and muddle through it. No software job calls for handwritten pages of text, it clearly discriminates on ability and it shouldn't be a part of hiring. Simple as.
someweirdperson 4y ago
I wanted to add a smart remark saying that once upon a time, in better times long gone, a long time before leetcode was invented, handwriting itself was used as a criterion to hire. Then the first hit on google was a paper from 2018 about how to hire based on handwriting.

soonerroadie 4y ago

lentil_soup 4y ago

Why so aggressive? What's the problem with the pen? The idea the OP proposes is to use it as a spring board to get a discussion going, I'm sure a pen, a keyboard or a interpretive dance would all work for what they're proposing

systemvoltage 4y ago

Are there better ways to deal with this than go straight to the lawyer?

mewse 4y ago

I mean, obviously exceptions were frequently made for folks with special needs or just personal preferences. I’m aware of many times that was done for both situations. I assure you that I’m not a monster and I would really appreciate it if you’d assume positive intent in such replies.

samatman 4y ago
That isn't obvious at all, you explicitly say 'no computers allowed' and yeah, I consider a forty-page handwritten essay a sadistic way to find out more about a computer programmer. I don't think you're a bad person for it, and ok, good to know you're willing to make accomodations, but my reaction to being asked to do this would be sharply negative. The keyboard is inherent to the profession. Assuming you read the essay it is impossible to not judge the applicant on their penmanship. A difficult skill with absolutely no bearing on the qualification for the job. I urge anyone reading this to not offer a 40 page handwritten essay to software developers in the first place. It's an awful idea.
- mewse 4y ago
  I have explicitly and repeatedly pointed out that individual applicants each engaged with only a very small portion out of a very large test — the entirety of which had its questions printed across 40 pages. There was obviously no “sadistic 40 page handwritten essay”; individuals engaged with whatever individual questions they wanted to, and would normally write their answers into the bits of blank space left in between the questions. I’d estimate that a normal applicant who answered ten to twenty questions would normally write substantially less than what would constitute a single page of text in total. Again, I’m not a monster. I’d really appreciate it if you’d assume positive intent and ask for clarification rather than jumping to the worst possible interpretation you can invent and then stridently declaring that you’d take legal action on the basis of the fictional “sadistic” thing you’ve chosen to believe I was making people do.

xtracto 4y ago

This post is so American: entitlement, passive aggressive and lawyers . Oh my. In most of the world a "no thanks I pass" will suffice