4 ms·

People who get "recommendations" don't feel guilty at all for their unfair advantage. So please, more of this! Let the kids know that we don't live in a merito

People who get "recommendations" don't feel guilty at all for their unfair advantage. So please, more of this! Let the kids know that we don't live in a meritocracy! Otherwise, the good ones will become discouraged and we will all lose.

jimmaswell 4y ago
> we don't live in a meritocracy Nothing is perfect, but we do live in an approximation of a meritocracy, especially in tech. I had no special connections anywhere going into or coming out of college and ended up at my first company "the hard way". Any good references I made were only made through delivering results, I didn't know any interview questions in advance, and my college had no "prestige", certainly no Microsoft interviewers flying out to it - closest would be some waste of time joke of an "opportunity" I showed up to where IBM showed up to talk about their mainframes and AI stuff but offering absolutely no internship or job positions for software engineers. Coming from the tech desert of upstate New York, I actually had a lot of disadvantages working against me, working up from some low end job I only got half a year after graduating at a consultancy company to where I am now years later at a good remote programming position.
- bradlys 4y ago
  Just because you made it in your specific case (however you seem to define this) doesn’t mean we have meritocracy.
  - jimmaswell 4y ago
    Tech is one of the biggest success stories, if not /the/ biggest, of upwardly mobile meritocracy. Anyone with an internet connection can learn what they need on their home computer and probably make it if they have the ability and time. I hate this idea that everyone who succeeds does so only or even primarily by chance and privilege. Obviously those things will help you, but everyone I know who's tried in life has succeeded in some way, and the people I know who espouse all this "the system is rigged, everything sucks, full communism now" stuff never had any drive or patience to do or learn anything and just want to put in the least effort possible to smoke weed and sit around like a vegetable all day. I hate how these people try to take my accomplishments away from me. My family was low earning, I had social difficulties in public school, I had no connections or help beyond FAFSA for college. Maybe some people do take the "bootstraps" thing too far but we absolutely live in a world where you can succeed on your own merit.
    - bradlys 4y ago
      I come from a worse environment than you and have risen to a higher position. (I was making $1m/yr last year - if you want any kind of token) I still don’t think tech is a meritocracy and will continue to know that. Do not buy into this delusion. Just because you made it - meritocracy it does not make.
      - jimmaswell 4y ago
        What's your definition of a meritocracy then? There's going to be nepotism and other unfair advantages anywhere in life, but I'm only interested in where a natural born programmer with a computer, some time after school, and not much else can end up. I think in the majority of cases this person can at least get an in somewhere, and once you have an in in tech, you'll be recognized by your team/manager if you do great work. This is all made easier if there's free community college, good social safety nets, etc. which I fully support.
        ZephyrBlu 4y ago
        > you'll be recognized by your team/manager if you do great work Why are you so sure of this?
        Cheezemansam 4y ago
        >once you have an in in tech, you'll be recognized by your team/manager if you do great work. It is naive to think every work environment is like this.
    - hackernewds 4y ago
      You provide anecdata of your experience but no evidence of substance really. Which is fine as an opinion, but not when you make claims about others like > the people know who espouse all this "the system is rigged, everything sucks, full communism now" stuff never had any drive or patience to do or learn anything and just want to put in the least effort possible to smoke weed and sit around like a vegetable all day.
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
Remember, if you're not cheating, you're not really trying.

jimmaswell 4y ago

> we don't live in a meritocracy Nothing is perfect, but we do live in an approximation of a meritocracy, especially in tech. I had no special connections anywhere going into or coming out of college and ended up at my first company "the hard way". Any good references I made were only made through delivering results, I didn't know any interview questions in advance, and my college had no "prestige", certainly no Microsoft interviewers flying out to it - closest would be some waste of time joke of an "opportunity" I showed up to where IBM showed up to talk about their mainframes and AI stuff but offering absolutely no internship or job positions for software engineers. Coming from the tech desert of upstate New York, I actually had a lot of disadvantages working against me, working up from some low end job I only got half a year after graduating at a consultancy company to where I am now years later at a good remote programming position.

bradlys 4y ago
Just because you made it in your specific case (however you seem to define this) doesn’t mean we have meritocracy.
- jimmaswell 4y ago
  Tech is one of the biggest success stories, if not /the/ biggest, of upwardly mobile meritocracy. Anyone with an internet connection can learn what they need on their home computer and probably make it if they have the ability and time. I hate this idea that everyone who succeeds does so only or even primarily by chance and privilege. Obviously those things will help you, but everyone I know who's tried in life has succeeded in some way, and the people I know who espouse all this "the system is rigged, everything sucks, full communism now" stuff never had any drive or patience to do or learn anything and just want to put in the least effort possible to smoke weed and sit around like a vegetable all day. I hate how these people try to take my accomplishments away from me. My family was low earning, I had social difficulties in public school, I had no connections or help beyond FAFSA for college. Maybe some people do take the "bootstraps" thing too far but we absolutely live in a world where you can succeed on your own merit.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    I come from a worse environment than you and have risen to a higher position. (I was making $1m/yr last year - if you want any kind of token) I still don’t think tech is a meritocracy and will continue to know that. Do not buy into this delusion. Just because you made it - meritocracy it does not make.
    - jimmaswell 4y ago
      What's your definition of a meritocracy then? There's going to be nepotism and other unfair advantages anywhere in life, but I'm only interested in where a natural born programmer with a computer, some time after school, and not much else can end up. I think in the majority of cases this person can at least get an in somewhere, and once you have an in in tech, you'll be recognized by your team/manager if you do great work. This is all made easier if there's free community college, good social safety nets, etc. which I fully support.
      - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
        > you'll be recognized by your team/manager if you do great work Why are you so sure of this?
      - Cheezemansam 4y ago
        >once you have an in in tech, you'll be recognized by your team/manager if you do great work. It is naive to think every work environment is like this.
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    You provide anecdata of your experience but no evidence of substance really. Which is fine as an opinion, but not when you make claims about others like > the people know who espouse all this "the system is rigged, everything sucks, full communism now" stuff never had any drive or patience to do or learn anything and just want to put in the least effort possible to smoke weed and sit around like a vegetable all day.

BeFlatXIII 4y ago

Remember, if you're not cheating, you're not really trying.