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>And don't forget the mandatory "crapware" that carriers pre-install. ICS supposedly solves this problem but one has to wonder how many low-end Android phones

>And don't forget the mandatory "crapware" that carriers pre-install. ICS supposedly solves this problem but one has to wonder how many low-end Android phones will be sold in the next year (or even two?) that won't support ICS since the N1 won't be getting it.

barredo 15y ago
I'd say Gingerbread will still be the most pre-installed Android version during all 2012.
- degusta 15y ago
  Unfortunately I suspect you're right.
- guelo 15y ago
  That's highly doubtful. After the source is available the full transition to the new OS by all manufacturers, even the cheap ones, seems to take about 6 months. Gingerbread source was released last December and there were no Froyo devices being sold by summer.
  - anon1385 15y ago
    >there were no Froyo devices being sold by summer What? There are still Froyo devices being sold now, as described in the article we are currently discussing: That’s because every US carrier is still selling - even just now introducing - smartphones that will almost certainly never run Gingerbread and beyond. Example: http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/huawei-impulse-4g-at/4505-6452_7-35016039.html http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/huawei-impulse-4g-at/450...
  - barredo 15y ago
    Stores are filled with Froyo Tablets & Phones. Not like a year ago. But still lots.
- baconner 15y ago
  Sadly I agree. Its also why I'm not too concerned that my n1 wont get a supported upgrade - I'll be needing a device that's down where the users are to dev & test. Ics will have to wait a bit.
gujk 15y ago
ICS makes preinstalled apps removable? Even one Google preinstalls, like Maps and Gallery and Twitter?
- technoslut 15y ago
  You can hide it within preferences which is probably the main issue with many users. From what I've seen these apps matter very little in terms of storage.
  - camtarn 15y ago
    Depends on the phone and how much crapware is installed. I ended up having to flash my UK Orange-branded HTC Desire because they'd installed so much that there was only enough storage left to install a few user apps. Newer phones are much better off in this regard.
    - jrabone 15y ago
      Ha. Non-Orange phones are much better off in this regard (at least in the UK). And non-branded phones are even better. I don't think carriers have realised just how much ill-will their crapware/crippling branding process engenders. In the past, they created a market for tools like Davinci, even though I resent having to use something like that to get MY hardware back into a sane state (and risk bricking it in the process). Now, they're pushing people towards rooting their Android phone. I haven't yet rooted my new (non-contract-encumbered) S2, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. When I do, I'll be sure to install my usual selection of advert-filtering, revenue-denying proxies while I'm at it...
    - sarnowski 15y ago
      I am using a branded T-Mobile HTC phone and I cannot agree more about unwanted crapware. I have a "Top Ten Apps" app on my phone which is preinstalled by T-Mobile, is not removable und runs permanently as a background process with 14mb ram (and I never started it) -.- I don't need to mention all those facebook, twitter and other "social" stuff where I don't even have accounts for.
recoiledsnake 15y ago
How does it solve the issue? By making the UI better? But won't OEMs want to "differentiate" by installing their own bloated flashy custom UI? Not to mention the uninstallable adware and junkware installed and always running in the background. Does ICS solve this?
- vetinari 15y ago
  Yes, ICS solves that. Even if the apk is installed in system partition (that means you can't uninstall it), you can mark it hidden and the system will never take it into account at startup, intent broadcast or in other situations. It is as good as removed (except that it physically can't be removed, because you may want to restore the phone to factory settings).
  - gcb 15y ago
    i give it two days after launch for a cheap model sold by AT&T to came with ICS patched to ignore certain nascar apps.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    >you can mark it hidden Is there a UI function in the OS(for example by right clicking on the icon) for that or should it be done via a adb shell?
    - joebadmo 15y ago
      It's available in system settings: http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/20/bloatware-kill-switch-ice-cream-sandwich/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/20/bloatware-kill-switch-ice...
falling 15y ago
Do you really call "sweeping the crap under the carpet" "solving" the problem? I call it a workaround, at best. Users will often want the used space back too, not just hide the icon.
guelo 15y ago
The other point is that iOS is chockfull of crapware, though for some reason people ignore crapware if it comes straight from Apple. iOS 5 even prevents you from hiding some of the crap inside folders, I noticed this with the Newsstand app.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- jessedhillon 15y ago
  Chock full? This means it's full to capacity. Allowing for just a small bit of hyperbole in your statement, which of the default apps are "crapware"? The ones that I'd consider weakly arguable are iTunes and Weather (and perhaps Newsstand), and the former is an essential part of the Apple ecosystem for mainstream consumers. Compare this with the phone I had before, which had uninstallable NASCAR and NFL apps, just to name a couple. As well as one called Sprint TV, which you could use to access a for-pay streaming service which I think was discontinued, but sucked in either case. On iOS you see no branded apps like this forced onto your home screen. The one exception is the icon for the Nike syncing feature, which is in Settings and not on the home screen. I was overjoyed when I got my new iPhone and found that the only thing Sprint was allowed to place onto the phone was a removable bookmark for the Sprint Powerdeck, whatever that is.
- mambodog 15y ago
  I think you're kind of missing the point of why the carrier crapware is bad. It isn't solely because you can't hide it or remove it, it's because in addition to that it is generally really poorly written software that has a terrible user experience and often only exists as an advertisement to some other product or service (ie. NASCAR app). Additionally in the case of some manufacturers and carriers, the standard UI is replaced with potentially less usable, but more importantly non-standard, creating an inconsistant user experience which fragments the platform. TL;DR: if you buy an iOS device you get a consistant user experience. Thanks to the crapware, from Android you do not.
  - methodin 15y ago

barredo 15y ago

I'd say Gingerbread will still be the most pre-installed Android version during all 2012.

degusta 15y ago
Unfortunately I suspect you're right.
guelo 15y ago
That's highly doubtful. After the source is available the full transition to the new OS by all manufacturers, even the cheap ones, seems to take about 6 months. Gingerbread source was released last December and there were no Froyo devices being sold by summer.
- anon1385 15y ago
  >there were no Froyo devices being sold by summer What? There are still Froyo devices being sold now, as described in the article we are currently discussing: That’s because every US carrier is still selling - even just now introducing - smartphones that will almost certainly never run Gingerbread and beyond. Example: http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/huawei-impulse-4g-at/4505-6452_7-35016039.html http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/huawei-impulse-4g-at/450...
- barredo 15y ago
  Stores are filled with Froyo Tablets & Phones. Not like a year ago. But still lots.
baconner 15y ago
Sadly I agree. Its also why I'm not too concerned that my n1 wont get a supported upgrade - I'll be needing a device that's down where the users are to dev & test. Ics will have to wait a bit.

gujk 15y ago

ICS makes preinstalled apps removable? Even one Google preinstalls, like Maps and Gallery and Twitter?

technoslut 15y ago
You can hide it within preferences which is probably the main issue with many users. From what I've seen these apps matter very little in terms of storage.
- camtarn 15y ago
  Depends on the phone and how much crapware is installed. I ended up having to flash my UK Orange-branded HTC Desire because they'd installed so much that there was only enough storage left to install a few user apps. Newer phones are much better off in this regard.
  - jrabone 15y ago
    Ha. Non-Orange phones are much better off in this regard (at least in the UK). And non-branded phones are even better. I don't think carriers have realised just how much ill-will their crapware/crippling branding process engenders. In the past, they created a market for tools like Davinci, even though I resent having to use something like that to get MY hardware back into a sane state (and risk bricking it in the process). Now, they're pushing people towards rooting their Android phone. I haven't yet rooted my new (non-contract-encumbered) S2, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. When I do, I'll be sure to install my usual selection of advert-filtering, revenue-denying proxies while I'm at it...
  - sarnowski 15y ago
    I am using a branded T-Mobile HTC phone and I cannot agree more about unwanted crapware. I have a "Top Ten Apps" app on my phone which is preinstalled by T-Mobile, is not removable und runs permanently as a background process with 14mb ram (and I never started it) -.- I don't need to mention all those facebook, twitter and other "social" stuff where I don't even have accounts for.

recoiledsnake 15y ago

How does it solve the issue? By making the UI better? But won't OEMs want to "differentiate" by installing their own bloated flashy custom UI? Not to mention the uninstallable adware and junkware installed and always running in the background. Does ICS solve this?

vetinari 15y ago
Yes, ICS solves that. Even if the apk is installed in system partition (that means you can't uninstall it), you can mark it hidden and the system will never take it into account at startup, intent broadcast or in other situations. It is as good as removed (except that it physically can't be removed, because you may want to restore the phone to factory settings).
- gcb 15y ago
  i give it two days after launch for a cheap model sold by AT&T to came with ICS patched to ignore certain nascar apps.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  >you can mark it hidden Is there a UI function in the OS(for example by right clicking on the icon) for that or should it be done via a adb shell?
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    It's available in system settings: http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/20/bloatware-kill-switch-ice-cream-sandwich/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/20/bloatware-kill-switch-ice...

falling 15y ago

Do you really call "sweeping the crap under the carpet" "solving" the problem? I call it a workaround, at best. Users will often want the used space back too, not just hide the icon.

guelo 15y ago

The other point is that iOS is chockfull of crapware, though for some reason people ignore crapware if it comes straight from Apple. iOS 5 even prevents you from hiding some of the crap inside folders, I noticed this with the Newsstand app.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
jessedhillon 15y ago
Chock full? This means it's full to capacity. Allowing for just a small bit of hyperbole in your statement, which of the default apps are "crapware"? The ones that I'd consider weakly arguable are iTunes and Weather (and perhaps Newsstand), and the former is an essential part of the Apple ecosystem for mainstream consumers. Compare this with the phone I had before, which had uninstallable NASCAR and NFL apps, just to name a couple. As well as one called Sprint TV, which you could use to access a for-pay streaming service which I think was discontinued, but sucked in either case. On iOS you see no branded apps like this forced onto your home screen. The one exception is the icon for the Nike syncing feature, which is in Settings and not on the home screen. I was overjoyed when I got my new iPhone and found that the only thing Sprint was allowed to place onto the phone was a removable bookmark for the Sprint Powerdeck, whatever that is.
mambodog 15y ago
I think you're kind of missing the point of why the carrier crapware is bad. It isn't solely because you can't hide it or remove it, it's because in addition to that it is generally really poorly written software that has a terrible user experience and often only exists as an advertisement to some other product or service (ie. NASCAR app). Additionally in the case of some manufacturers and carriers, the standard UI is replaced with potentially less usable, but more importantly non-standard, creating an inconsistant user experience which fragments the platform. TL;DR: if you buy an iOS device you get a consistant user experience. Thanks to the crapware, from Android you do not.
- methodin 15y ago