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The current situation is somewhat unfair to the indiscrete / non-tech-savvy consumer since they might buy an Android phone without understanding the differences
by d_r 15y ago
The current situation is somewhat unfair to the indiscrete / non-tech-savvy consumer since they might buy an Android phone without understanding the differences from the iOS ecosystem. At least several of my friends did. "They're about the same right? And this one was $30 cheaper!" And I genuinely feel bad every time this happens.
Note that I of course have no gripes with Android OS/concept itself -- it's a good contender to iOS. My gripe is with the current gouging of consumers by hardware manufacturers/cell phone companies, of the fragmented/poor/outdated hardware coverage in many models, lack of upgrades, et cetera. And don't forget the mandatory "crapware" that carriers pre-install.
This is quite different from buying, say, a Dell/HP PC vs. a Mac -- in both cases do you get a working, upgradeable machine.
- technoslut 15y ago>And don't forget the mandatory "crapware" that carriers pre-install. ICS supposedly solves this problem but one has to wonder how many low-end Android phones will be sold in the next year (or even two?) that won't support ICS since the N1 won't be getting it.
- barredo 15y agoI'd say Gingerbread will still be the most pre-installed Android version during all 2012.
- degusta 15y agoUnfortunately I suspect you're right.
- guelo 15y agoThat's highly doubtful. After the source is available the full transition to the new OS by all manufacturers, even the cheap ones, seems to take about 6 months. Gingerbread source was released last December and there were no Froyo devices being sold by summer.
- anon1385 15y ago>there were no Froyo devices being sold by summer What? There are still Froyo devices being sold now, as described in the article we are currently discussing: That’s because every US carrier is still selling - even just now introducing - smartphones that will almost certainly never run Gingerbread and beyond. Example: http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/huawei-impulse-4g-at/4505-6452_7-35016039.html http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/huawei-impulse-4g-at/450...
- barredo 15y agoStores are filled with Froyo Tablets & Phones. Not like a year ago. But still lots.
- baconner 15y agoSadly I agree. Its also why I'm not too concerned that my n1 wont get a supported upgrade - I'll be needing a device that's down where the users are to dev & test. Ics will have to wait a bit.
- gujk 15y agoICS makes preinstalled apps removable? Even one Google preinstalls, like Maps and Gallery and Twitter?
- technoslut 15y agoYou can hide it within preferences which is probably the main issue with many users. From what I've seen these apps matter very little in terms of storage.
- camtarn 15y agoDepends on the phone and how much crapware is installed. I ended up having to flash my UK Orange-branded HTC Desire because they'd installed so much that there was only enough storage left to install a few user apps. Newer phones are much better off in this regard.
- jrabone 15y agoHa. Non-Orange phones are much better off in this regard (at least in the UK). And non-branded phones are even better. I don't think carriers have realised just how much ill-will their crapware/crippling branding process engenders. In the past, they created a market for tools like Davinci, even though I resent having to use something like that to get MY hardware back into a sane state (and risk bricking it in the process). Now, they're pushing people towards rooting their Android phone. I haven't yet rooted my new (non-contract-encumbered) S2, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. When I do, I'll be sure to install my usual selection of advert-filtering, revenue-denying proxies while I'm at it...
- sarnowski 15y agoI am using a branded T-Mobile HTC phone and I cannot agree more about unwanted crapware. I have a "Top Ten Apps" app on my phone which is preinstalled by T-Mobile, is not removable und runs permanently as a background process with 14mb ram (and I never started it) -.- I don't need to mention all those facebook, twitter and other "social" stuff where I don't even have accounts for.
- recoiledsnake 15y agoHow does it solve the issue? By making the UI better? But won't OEMs want to "differentiate" by installing their own bloated flashy custom UI? Not to mention the uninstallable adware and junkware installed and always running in the background. Does ICS solve this?
- vetinari 15y agoYes, ICS solves that. Even if the apk is installed in system partition (that means you can't uninstall it), you can mark it hidden and the system will never take it into account at startup, intent broadcast or in other situations. It is as good as removed (except that it physically can't be removed, because you may want to restore the phone to factory settings).
- gcb 15y agoi give it two days after launch for a cheap model sold by AT&T to came with ICS patched to ignore certain nascar apps.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago>you can mark it hidden Is there a UI function in the OS(for example by right clicking on the icon) for that or should it be done via a adb shell?
- joebadmo 15y agoIt's available in system settings: http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/20/bloatware-kill-switch-ice-cream-sandwich/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/20/bloatware-kill-switch-ice...
- falling 15y agoDo you really call "sweeping the crap under the carpet" "solving" the problem? I call it a workaround, at best. Users will often want the used space back too, not just hide the icon.
- guelo 15y agoThe other point is that iOS is chockfull of crapware, though for some reason people ignore crapware if it comes straight from Apple. iOS 5 even prevents you from hiding some of the crap inside folders, I noticed this with the Newsstand app.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- jessedhillon 15y agoChock full? This means it's full to capacity. Allowing for just a small bit of hyperbole in your statement, which of the default apps are "crapware"? The ones that I'd consider weakly arguable are iTunes and Weather (and perhaps Newsstand), and the former is an essential part of the Apple ecosystem for mainstream consumers. Compare this with the phone I had before, which had uninstallable NASCAR and NFL apps, just to name a couple. As well as one called Sprint TV, which you could use to access a for-pay streaming service which I think was discontinued, but sucked in either case. On iOS you see no branded apps like this forced onto your home screen. The one exception is the icon for the Nike syncing feature, which is in Settings and not on the home screen. I was overjoyed when I got my new iPhone and found that the only thing Sprint was allowed to place onto the phone was a removable bookmark for the Sprint Powerdeck, whatever that is.
- mambodog 15y agoI think you're kind of missing the point of why the carrier crapware is bad. It isn't solely because you can't hide it or remove it, it's because in addition to that it is generally really poorly written software that has a terrible user experience and often only exists as an advertisement to some other product or service (ie. NASCAR app). Additionally in the case of some manufacturers and carriers, the standard UI is replaced with potentially less usable, but more importantly non-standard, creating an inconsistant user experience which fragments the platform. TL;DR: if you buy an iOS device you get a consistant user experience. Thanks to the crapware, from Android you do not.
- methodin 15y ago
- SamColes 15y agoAre OS updates really that important for most consumers? I have a Desire running Froyo. I don't think I've really missed out on a huge amount by not getting Gingerbread.
- btn 15y agoOS updates are probably more important for developers initially---having access to the latest and greatest API/phone features/bugfixes. This becomes important for consumers when the apps they want to use require a version of the OS they can't get.
- degusta 15y agoI agree they're maybe not essential to a lot of consumers. Lord knows most people never thought about whether their dumbphone's OS was outdated or not, but I do think it's less than ideal for the ecosystem in the long term.
- davidedicillo 15y agoWhile it may not be directly important to the final users (if you don't count security upgrades between versions), it definitely impact the ecosystem. If you need to pick a platform to develop for, you go for the more homogeneous one from a OS point of view. Also enterprises invest more in devices that have a longer support life. They want to buy something that even in 2-3 years is fully supported by the manufacture.
- vetinari 15y agoEnterprises don't care about device support life. They care, if the phone will survive for about two years. Then the employees will start bug you, that they want new gadget (I know, we have several hundred of them...).
- nodata 15y agoAre security updates important for most consumers? Hell yes. Whether they know it or not.
- funkah 15y ago
- adestefan 15y agoIt is the same thing that happens in the PC space. Since Microsoft doesn't make hardware they or third parties must write drivers and support everything that people put out there. Where OS X only needs to support the devices that Apple creates. The difference is that Windows is such an entrenched platform that the third parties are willing to step up to the plate and write the drivers for the PC. Now the question is if Andriod will ever reach that same point.
- gujk 15y agoAndroid has all the drivers it needs. The real difference is that Android systems are locked down in ways more annoying to circumvent than your average Windows OEM junkware install. It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS.
- chollida1 15y ago> It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS. Can you enlighten me as to what it means to "crossgrade the OS". Native english speaker and I've never heard the term :)
- w0utert 15y agoI'd imagine he means wiping the Windows install and installing some other OS, e.g. Linux, BSD or OSx86 or something. Not really an upgrade or downgrade of the Windows installation the machine shipped with. I think crossgrade is a nice way to put it ;-)
- chollida1 15y agoAh, I thought it was some weird stripping down thing the kids were doing to windows these days.
- raganwald 15y agoLinux :-)
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- RK 15y agoI'm very happy with Android. But, I only recommend the Nexus line and this post seems to back that up (we'll see as things go forward).
- gcb 15y agothat's choosing the lesser of two evils. my nexus one shows as green, yes, i have all the latest software, but no fix yet for the touchscreen issue. That alone would make the nexus one RED since launch on that table for me, as this hints to zero support. try to use your touch screen for 10min while the device is charging from an empty battery (some other use cases also trigger the bug, but this is 100% reproductible)
- RK 15y agoIs that a hardware issue? Never had a touchscreen problem myself when charging.
- gcb 15y agoa combination of hardware and software. cheap hardware used in some lots require software recalibration on the driver. if this does not happen to your phone you are in the happy minority of nexus one users. to the rest of us, while using the touch screen for extended periods of time (shorted if using both fingers and/or charging) it will start to behave erradicaly. Touching one area will register a touch somewhere else. This is also affected by the pressure. the harder you press the less likely to see the bug. It will get worse and affect larger areas until you turn the screen off and on again (lock, unlock and it's back to perfect condition) worth to mention, this does not happens with some mods. but i haven't rooted my phone as i use it mostly for development and like to test against the stock image.
- nieve 15y agoI saw a very similar bug with my Motorola Cliq (which eventually, half-heartedly got updates) using the stock T-Mobile ROMs and Cyanogen Mod. Though I didn't track it down to that specific case I actually tended to use it while charging pretty heavily. Not sure if they're using the same hardware for part of the touchscreen, the S definitely had higher-end hw in general.
- gcb 15y agoi don't buy this 'a good contender for iOS'. they are different leagues. The people that consider an android or ios as equals and decide on device color or price won't even know what this table is about. history is repeating. iOS is a IBM mainframe. with it's golden cuffs. Android is the radio shack PC. with it's "require soldering". i give that android is still in it's infancy. and that the availability of OSes are few. just like in the beginning of the PC era all you had was BASICshells. all you have now for android is Android and some slighly different shells. but soon an android device will be like a PC. you can choose your linux distro. and then you will have the option of having full control of your mobile, just like you have of your servers.
- jamesfrank 15y agoThere may be some truth to that for the type of person who reads HN, but it's certainly not true for the wider public. Most people don't care about having full control of their mobile device, they just want it to work.
- gcb 15y agoexactly. and for them both this discussion and the long term support is irrelevant.
- jessedhillon 15y agoIt's not irrelevant to them -- it's a concern that they are unable to articulate. Anecdotal support: for the Android users I know who fall into this group, it manifests as a vague set of complaints -- certain apps don't run, had to take it into the store a lot, app claiming to be available for Android not available for their phone -- which are all symptoms of having what is called here an orphaned phone. So yeah, they don't know or care whether they are running version 1.x or 2.y. But they do know that they are generally dissatisfied with their phone.
- cpeterso 15y agoAndroid == "Dude, you're gettin' a Dell!"
- marze 15y agoApple doesn't pander. They don't try to sell product by giving large commissions to the sales people. If you walk into an AT&T store, the sales associates won't recommend an iPhone. Apple gets smart customers who understand the advantages of what they are buying, not customers who were duped into buying something because some clueless sales associate got a huge commission for selling it to them.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago>This is quite different from buying, say, a Dell/HP PC vs. a Mac -- in both cases do you get a working, upgradeable machine. But if you buy phones with unlocked bootloaders, it's just largely the same. As long as there is a device maintainer that has written an overlay for CM, you will get the newer OS updates. Before you jump on me and tell me "consumers shouldn't have to watch out for that", let's just remember the controversy still unraveling regarding Secure Boot with UEFI and Windows 8.
- drivebyacct2 15y agoThis is a controversial post? "Secure Boot" (without a way to disable or specify keys) is exactly like a locked bootloader on an Android phone.