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> but users don't give a crap about choice when all they want is read misinformation on social media, post personal data in public and watch cat videos on t

> but users don't give a crap about choice when all they want is read misinformation on social media, post personal data in public and watch cat videos on ticktock. I really don't mean to direct this at you personally, I suspect you're just repeating things you've heard, or what you think other's think, but I sincerely believe this kind of latent contempt for users needs to stop. Are we all experts on what "users don't give a crap about" here? In another thread today [1] I made a similar remark about our willingness to suppose we know how "users" feel about privacy. This feels wrong, like the equivalent of something like racism or sexism that should have died out in the 1980s. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31618884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31618884

garrickvanburen 4y ago
The word “User” itself is derogatory.
- Proven 4y ago
oneplane 4y ago
I'm basing it on metrics from networks I manage (and where a signed policy is in effect that law-mandated decryption proxies are in use). The crap people will still do on such networks is baffling, and we're not talking just white collar tech workers or something like that, it's all across the board. (granted, it's only about 150k users in western EU, 10k in Africa and 25k in canada, so may not be representative of the world at large) That experience combined with the number of visitors/users for those platforms I mentioned results in what I wrote. For you and me, we already have plenty of options, there is no 'taking it back' because we already have it. If you use Iceweasel on Debian fore example, you're pretty much there already.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  This does sound like useful empirical data. I'd love to hear more but suspect you're constrained by good manners/duty (if not actual confidentiality law) to say no more. Ping me if you feel like saying more about it please.

garrickvanburen 4y ago

The word “User” itself is derogatory.

Proven 4y ago

oneplane 4y ago

I'm basing it on metrics from networks I manage (and where a signed policy is in effect that law-mandated decryption proxies are in use). The crap people will still do on such networks is baffling, and we're not talking just white collar tech workers or something like that, it's all across the board. (granted, it's only about 150k users in western EU, 10k in Africa and 25k in canada, so may not be representative of the world at large) That experience combined with the number of visitors/users for those platforms I mentioned results in what I wrote. For you and me, we already have plenty of options, there is no 'taking it back' because we already have it. If you use Iceweasel on Debian fore example, you're pretty much there already.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
This does sound like useful empirical data. I'd love to hear more but suspect you're constrained by good manners/duty (if not actual confidentiality law) to say no more. Ping me if you feel like saying more about it please.