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I just did a quick scrape of the NHTSA consumer-reported complaints for all models of Teslas for the month of May. 78 reports. 2 concern unintended acceleration

I just did a quick scrape of the NHTSA consumer-reported complaints for all models of Teslas for the month of May. 78 reports. 2 concern unintended acceleration. Mind you, 'unintended acceleration' reports come from all manufacturers and all models of cars -- so a fair starting position is that the driver mistook the accelerator for the brake. Nevertheless, it seems that giving the crash data promptly to the consumer would clarify to the consumer that they have 'fat feet', and settle the matter, at least in the consumer's mind. Incidentally, I narrowly missed getting hit by a lady who drove her car (non-Tesla) into a local Fedex-Kinkos, having left the store 5 minutes earlier, and returned 5 minutes after her car 'parked' inside the store.

alexanderdmitri 4y ago
I'm not sure driver mistaking the pedals is a fair starting point with the amount of software involved now a days. Telsas push updates over the air that affect these sorts of things. In this article[0] for example, it's suggested a once optional feature that is now mandatory can be used for one pedal driving. [0] https://electrek.co/2022/05/25/tesla-updates-car-software-regular-brakes-regenerative-limited/ https://electrek.co/2022/05/25/tesla-updates-car-software-re...
- aardvarkr 4y ago
  Remember the issue of Toyota’s with unintended acceleration? That was 100% due to fat feet so this is indeed a very fair starting point. This has happened so so so many times without any technology involved. The tech may have changed but the human behind the wheel hasn’t.
  - belter 4y ago
    "Sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles" [1] The first major cause of unintended acceleration was found in March 2007, when an engineering analysis showed that unsecured all-weather mats had led to pedal entrapment and drivers accelerating up to 90 mph with decreased braking power... ...Early on, Toyota suggested that driver error was to blame, saying that some people may have hit the gas when they meant to hit the brake... ...This led to Toyota sending a letter to the owners of the affected car, a 2007 Lexus ES350, asking that they bring their cars in to switch out the all-weather mats... ...After this recall, Toyota decided to revise the internal design of their cars to ensure that there was "10 millimetres (0.39 in) between a fully depressed gas pedal and the floor," but decided to only implement the new designs upon the next "full model redesign", which wouldn't take place until 2010... ...In an attempt to hide these defects from investigators, Toyota switched to verbal communication on the defect rather than traceable forms of communication. As a result, many new cars were knowingly produced with the same floor mat issues that had been identified as being having the potential to cause SUA problems in association with the defective pedal design..." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#Sudden_acceleration_in_Toyota_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration...
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
      That famous quote from Fight Club seems especially relevant here… Reproduced below, for those who haven’t seen the film: Narrator : [20:35] A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Woman on Plane : Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents? Narrator : You wouldn't believe. Woman on Plane : Which car company do you work for? Narrator : A major one.
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        The "post-pinto" addendum being "and we don't write any of this down because we're not idiots"
    - LanceH 4y ago
      > The first major cause of unintended acceleration was found in March 2007, when an engineering analysis showed that unsecured all-weather mats had led to pedal entrapment and drivers accelerating up to 90 mph with decreased braking power... That doesn't doesn't really align with all the people who were 100% sure they were stomping on the brake and the car was accelerating. I think a very large portion of their "guilt" was due to being a non-Detroit/American company at a time when those companies where hurting. Everyone just loved to pile on with no evidence at all. The exact same thing played out with the Audi 5000 in the 80's -- people hit the wrong pedal and lie. Until this issue is fixed, I would continue to suspect that first.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - bumby 4y ago
    Probably not with the Toyota given the model, but this can often be both a human error and bad design. In some cases, "human error" is at least partly attributable to poor human factors engineering. It sometimes happens with SUVs and large trucks with large transmission wells that effectively move the pedals towards the driver side door. When in a panic situation, people will sometimes mistake the location of accelerator for the brake out of sheer muscle memory.
  - nullc 4y ago
    > Toyota’s with unintended acceleration? That was 100% due to fat feet Wait. What??? https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_... and > Toyota Motor Corporation Admits to Misleading Consumers and U.S. Regulator About Safety Issues Related to Unintended Acceleration in Its Cars ... TOYOTA to pay a $1.2 billion financial penalty – the largest penalty of its kind ever imposed on an automotive company https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-criminal-charge-against-toyota-motor-corporation-and-deferred https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Given the histroy of unintended accileration its really absurd not assume this is not more of the same. I would require really strong evidence to believe it is anything else.
- elif 4y ago
  Of the cases where 'pedal mistake' doesn't explain it, self-interested, logical game theory suggests that a large portion are people who KNOW they accelerated manually and are seeking to avoid liability. Of those even not deliberately seeking innocence, there is a portion still whose human memory has post-rationalized that the car was in fact responsible, because they would never..
- jacquesm 4y ago
  The problem with that is that I wouldn't put it past Tesla to update that software and/or the data even after a crash if the car can be reached to avoid liability.
- maximus-decimus 4y ago
  One pedal driving is for braking by recharging your battery, I've never heard of it actually using the physical breaks. It wouldn't make sense since when there's no emergency, you want to minimize the use of physical breaks since the turn the mechanical energy into thermal energy, essentially wasting it.
kentonv 4y ago
In my Tesla I've had the experience a couple times of trying to hit the break, but accidentally pressing both petals at once. When this happens, a notice appears on the dashboard saying both petals are being pressed and so the car has decided you intended to brake. I don't think I've ever had this problem in another car (though admittedly, probably no other car I've driven would alert me if I did). It seems like the petals are placed a little differently from most cars and this makes it easier to accidentally hit both petals. I wonder if the computer's detection of this condition and decision to prioritize braking is a new feature since 2018...
- bozhark 4y ago
  It’s the two-feet driving scene from breaking bad, but in software. That’s unsettling.
  - Archelaos 4y ago
    I once overheard a conversation between two elderly ladies in a café. They were talking about how to drive a car without a clutch, and one was telling the other how difficult it was for her to drive with one foot on the brake and the other on the gas pedal.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  The first time I wore heavy steel-toed boots while driving, I had a hard time "finding" the accelerator pedal and kept fat-footing them both. But it didn't take me long before I was completely used to it.
- malkuth23 4y ago
  Do you think it is because you rarely need to use the brake in a Tesla? My limited experiencing driving one was that simply removing your foot from the accelerator often provides sufficient braking power. Maybe you lose some muscle memory.
- elif 4y ago
  I have size 13 feet. I struggle with my 3 pedal Saabs from the 80's when I wear shoes. No such problem in 2021 model Y.
belter 4y ago
"US has over 750 complaints of Teslas braking for no reason": https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/us-750-complaints-teslas-brake-reason-85158957 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/us-750-complaint...
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Those are 2 very different things.
  - bumby 4y ago
    True, but it can be indicative of a bad safety/design culture when multiple instances start surfacing. That's a much bigger deal than explaining a one-off
  - belter 4y ago
    "As of September 2019, the Tesla Model X, Model S and Model 3 have had more than 108 sudden unintended acceleration reports, as per NHTSA's Early Warning Page... ...A petition was issued for further investigation from the NHTSA, claiming Tesla's vehicles may have a structural flaw that can endanger public safety, and that the number of sudden unintended acceleration reports filed for the Tesla models were as much as 6000% higher as other brands' cars on similar class or otherwise (pages 63 through 66 on the petition report)... ...Furthermore, it also alleges Tesla knows about the "unintended acceleration" and is unresponsive to driver engagement following the incidents. It also asks for the recall of all Model 3, S and X vehicles produced by Tesla since 2013.The NHTSA has issued a statement saying they are in the process of reviewing the petition issued..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#Tesla's_Model_X,_S_and_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration...
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      I'm not sure what your point is. I responded correctly to what you said and then you link to wikipedia about that different topic. I didn't say Tesla never had 'unintended acceleration reports' so not sure why you would link me to evidence of that.
fredgrott 4y ago
caution, their acceleration errors are software errors not driver errors and its at a 300 to 500% increase and even has safety agencies worried

alexanderdmitri 4y ago

I'm not sure driver mistaking the pedals is a fair starting point with the amount of software involved now a days. Telsas push updates over the air that affect these sorts of things. In this article[0] for example, it's suggested a once optional feature that is now mandatory can be used for one pedal driving. [0] https://electrek.co/2022/05/25/tesla-updates-car-software-regular-brakes-regenerative-limited/ https://electrek.co/2022/05/25/tesla-updates-car-software-re...

aardvarkr 4y ago
Remember the issue of Toyota’s with unintended acceleration? That was 100% due to fat feet so this is indeed a very fair starting point. This has happened so so so many times without any technology involved. The tech may have changed but the human behind the wheel hasn’t.
- belter 4y ago
  "Sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles" [1] The first major cause of unintended acceleration was found in March 2007, when an engineering analysis showed that unsecured all-weather mats had led to pedal entrapment and drivers accelerating up to 90 mph with decreased braking power... ...Early on, Toyota suggested that driver error was to blame, saying that some people may have hit the gas when they meant to hit the brake... ...This led to Toyota sending a letter to the owners of the affected car, a 2007 Lexus ES350, asking that they bring their cars in to switch out the all-weather mats... ...After this recall, Toyota decided to revise the internal design of their cars to ensure that there was "10 millimetres (0.39 in) between a fully depressed gas pedal and the floor," but decided to only implement the new designs upon the next "full model redesign", which wouldn't take place until 2010... ...In an attempt to hide these defects from investigators, Toyota switched to verbal communication on the defect rather than traceable forms of communication. As a result, many new cars were knowingly produced with the same floor mat issues that had been identified as being having the potential to cause SUA problems in association with the defective pedal design..." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#Sudden_acceleration_in_Toyota_vehicles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration...
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
    That famous quote from Fight Club seems especially relevant here… Reproduced below, for those who haven’t seen the film: Narrator : [20:35] A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Woman on Plane : Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents? Narrator : You wouldn't believe. Woman on Plane : Which car company do you work for? Narrator : A major one.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      The "post-pinto" addendum being "and we don't write any of this down because we're not idiots"
  - LanceH 4y ago
    > The first major cause of unintended acceleration was found in March 2007, when an engineering analysis showed that unsecured all-weather mats had led to pedal entrapment and drivers accelerating up to 90 mph with decreased braking power... That doesn't doesn't really align with all the people who were 100% sure they were stomping on the brake and the car was accelerating. I think a very large portion of their "guilt" was due to being a non-Detroit/American company at a time when those companies where hurting. Everyone just loved to pile on with no evidence at all. The exact same thing played out with the Audi 5000 in the 80's -- people hit the wrong pedal and lie. Until this issue is fixed, I would continue to suspect that first.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- bumby 4y ago
  Probably not with the Toyota given the model, but this can often be both a human error and bad design. In some cases, "human error" is at least partly attributable to poor human factors engineering. It sometimes happens with SUVs and large trucks with large transmission wells that effectively move the pedals towards the driver side door. When in a panic situation, people will sometimes mistake the location of accelerator for the brake out of sheer muscle memory.
- nullc 4y ago
  > Toyota’s with unintended acceleration? That was 100% due to fat feet Wait. What??? https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_... and > Toyota Motor Corporation Admits to Misleading Consumers and U.S. Regulator About Safety Issues Related to Unintended Acceleration in Its Cars ... TOYOTA to pay a $1.2 billion financial penalty – the largest penalty of its kind ever imposed on an automotive company https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-criminal-charge-against-toyota-motor-corporation-and-deferred https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
panick21_ 4y ago
Given the histroy of unintended accileration its really absurd not assume this is not more of the same. I would require really strong evidence to believe it is anything else.
elif 4y ago
Of the cases where 'pedal mistake' doesn't explain it, self-interested, logical game theory suggests that a large portion are people who KNOW they accelerated manually and are seeking to avoid liability. Of those even not deliberately seeking innocence, there is a portion still whose human memory has post-rationalized that the car was in fact responsible, because they would never..
jacquesm 4y ago
The problem with that is that I wouldn't put it past Tesla to update that software and/or the data even after a crash if the car can be reached to avoid liability.
maximus-decimus 4y ago
One pedal driving is for braking by recharging your battery, I've never heard of it actually using the physical breaks. It wouldn't make sense since when there's no emergency, you want to minimize the use of physical breaks since the turn the mechanical energy into thermal energy, essentially wasting it.

kentonv 4y ago

In my Tesla I've had the experience a couple times of trying to hit the break, but accidentally pressing both petals at once. When this happens, a notice appears on the dashboard saying both petals are being pressed and so the car has decided you intended to brake. I don't think I've ever had this problem in another car (though admittedly, probably no other car I've driven would alert me if I did). It seems like the petals are placed a little differently from most cars and this makes it easier to accidentally hit both petals. I wonder if the computer's detection of this condition and decision to prioritize braking is a new feature since 2018...

bozhark 4y ago
It’s the two-feet driving scene from breaking bad, but in software. That’s unsettling.
- Archelaos 4y ago
  I once overheard a conversation between two elderly ladies in a café. They were talking about how to drive a car without a clutch, and one was telling the other how difficult it was for her to drive with one foot on the brake and the other on the gas pedal.
frosted-flakes 4y ago
The first time I wore heavy steel-toed boots while driving, I had a hard time "finding" the accelerator pedal and kept fat-footing them both. But it didn't take me long before I was completely used to it.
malkuth23 4y ago
Do you think it is because you rarely need to use the brake in a Tesla? My limited experiencing driving one was that simply removing your foot from the accelerator often provides sufficient braking power. Maybe you lose some muscle memory.
elif 4y ago
I have size 13 feet. I struggle with my 3 pedal Saabs from the 80's when I wear shoes. No such problem in 2021 model Y.

belter 4y ago

"US has over 750 complaints of Teslas braking for no reason": https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/us-750-complaints-teslas-brake-reason-85158957 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/us-750-complaint...

panick21_ 4y ago
Those are 2 very different things.
- bumby 4y ago
  True, but it can be indicative of a bad safety/design culture when multiple instances start surfacing. That's a much bigger deal than explaining a one-off
- belter 4y ago
  "As of September 2019, the Tesla Model X, Model S and Model 3 have had more than 108 sudden unintended acceleration reports, as per NHTSA's Early Warning Page... ...A petition was issued for further investigation from the NHTSA, claiming Tesla's vehicles may have a structural flaw that can endanger public safety, and that the number of sudden unintended acceleration reports filed for the Tesla models were as much as 6000% higher as other brands' cars on similar class or otherwise (pages 63 through 66 on the petition report)... ...Furthermore, it also alleges Tesla knows about the "unintended acceleration" and is unresponsive to driver engagement following the incidents. It also asks for the recall of all Model 3, S and X vehicles produced by Tesla since 2013.The NHTSA has issued a statement saying they are in the process of reviewing the petition issued..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration#Tesla's_Model_X,_S_and_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration...
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is. I responded correctly to what you said and then you link to wikipedia about that different topic. I didn't say Tesla never had 'unintended acceleration reports' so not sure why you would link me to evidence of that.

fredgrott 4y ago

caution, their acceleration errors are software errors not driver errors and its at a 300 to 500% increase and even has safety agencies worried