4 ms·

Playing devil’s advocate is fun, but you don’t know. And it’s hard to imagine how fixing a car could be hell on earth for the neighbors. Listen to how it sounds

Playing devil’s advocate is fun, but you don’t know. And it’s hard to imagine how fixing a car could be hell on earth for the neighbors. Listen to how it sounds. It’s over half a million dollars for fixing a car, man (woman; I wish there was a gender neutral term that had the same flexibility, since “bud” just sounds aggressive).

Shog9 4y ago
It's trivial to imagine, if you've ever worked on a car, had a "car guy" neighbor, lived near a service shop, etc. Many cars are neither quiet nor do they confine their emissions to property boundaries.
crooked-v 4y ago
The city has noted that the neighbors complained about rats, and that the guy actively refused to allow a city inspector onto the property (who could have, presumably, confirmed or denied reports of vermin infestation). That's less 'fixing a car' and more 'letting stuff sit there unattended until it fills up with animal nests'.
- Ferrotin 4y ago
  It’s private property, a city inspector has no right to trespass.
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    Well, yes, sure. But if all your neighbors say that rats are breeding in your suburban backyard and you refuse to allow anyone in who could document otherwise, resulting civil action like fines should be no surprise.
- Clubber 4y ago
  That was not mentioned as anything that was part of the $573,000 fine. Not sure why you are mentioning it as a justification. Do you feel people will be ok with fining someone $573,000 for having rats in their yard vs. having vehicles?
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    It's in the city's response to this article: https://sacramentocityexpress.com/2022/04/19/city-corrects-misleading-article-on-code-enforcement-from-the-sacramento-bee/ https://sacramentocityexpress.com/2022/04/19/city-corrects-m... Reading between the lines here, the most likely course of events is pretty obvious: he let non-operational vehicles sit in his backyard indefinitely while 'working' on them (i.e. thinking about working on them and putting it off until next week every time), those turned into rats' nests (fed, at least in part, by the uncollected fruit from the trees on the same property), and the neighbors started complaining about rats everywhere that they couldn't do anything about because most of them were living on the guy's unmaintained property.
    - Clubber 4y ago
      Now which part of that do you think justifies a $573,000 fine?
      - salgernon 4y ago
        The part where when he was cited 8 years ago and told that the fine was $250/day for non compliance. It’s about 90k per year.
        Clubber 4y ago
        You didn't justify it, you enumerated it. Explain why you believe fining someone $573,000 for having cars in their back yard working on them is reasonable and justifiable.
        salgernon 4y ago
        Because there was presumably no or minimal fine for violating this civil ordinance, should he have complied with mitigating the violation. There are then penalties for continuing the violation. So should the state have just given up? At what point? If there were a maximum, what would it be?
javajosh 4y ago
I would have used "dude" and not worried about it - HN is mostly dudes and from my experience female nerds could care less if you call them dudes (and may even get a little thrill out of it.)
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  You wouldn’t date a dude unless you like dudes. The ones I’ve spoken with definitely don’t get a thrill out of that.
  - javajosh 4y ago
    Not sure what you mean. Not talking about dating anyone, talking about addressing someone online as "dude". Where I grew up, in LA, "dude" is used by both men and women to address each other. And unless you yourself are harmed, or know someone who is harmed by this usage, I'd avoid taking speculative umbrage first because it's bad for your heart, and second because it's a huge waste of everyone's time.
    - sillysaurusx 4y ago
      The fact that you feel it’s a waste of time is part of the problem, dude. I’m relating things that women have told me directly. It’s not speculative. It’s exhausting when you’re part of a group and constantly mislabeled. Being friends with a diverse range of people helps with this. Next time you feel it’s okay to refer to a woman as a dude, just remember that you wouldn’t date a dude unless you were into dudes. If you’d like to discuss further, I’d be willing, since it’s an important topic to me. But we have to keep it high quality and substantive.
      - deleted 4y ago
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      - deleted 4y ago
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      - javajosh 4y ago
wanderingstan 4y ago
The city’s blog post about the case gives an idea of what the neighbors were experiencing; > neighbors complaining that [the yard] had become a harborage for rats.

Shog9 4y ago

It's trivial to imagine, if you've ever worked on a car, had a "car guy" neighbor, lived near a service shop, etc. Many cars are neither quiet nor do they confine their emissions to property boundaries.

crooked-v 4y ago

The city has noted that the neighbors complained about rats, and that the guy actively refused to allow a city inspector onto the property (who could have, presumably, confirmed or denied reports of vermin infestation). That's less 'fixing a car' and more 'letting stuff sit there unattended until it fills up with animal nests'.

Ferrotin 4y ago
It’s private property, a city inspector has no right to trespass.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  Well, yes, sure. But if all your neighbors say that rats are breeding in your suburban backyard and you refuse to allow anyone in who could document otherwise, resulting civil action like fines should be no surprise.
Clubber 4y ago
That was not mentioned as anything that was part of the $573,000 fine. Not sure why you are mentioning it as a justification. Do you feel people will be ok with fining someone $573,000 for having rats in their yard vs. having vehicles?
- crooked-v 4y ago
  It's in the city's response to this article: https://sacramentocityexpress.com/2022/04/19/city-corrects-misleading-article-on-code-enforcement-from-the-sacramento-bee/ https://sacramentocityexpress.com/2022/04/19/city-corrects-m... Reading between the lines here, the most likely course of events is pretty obvious: he let non-operational vehicles sit in his backyard indefinitely while 'working' on them (i.e. thinking about working on them and putting it off until next week every time), those turned into rats' nests (fed, at least in part, by the uncollected fruit from the trees on the same property), and the neighbors started complaining about rats everywhere that they couldn't do anything about because most of them were living on the guy's unmaintained property.
  - Clubber 4y ago
    Now which part of that do you think justifies a $573,000 fine?
    - salgernon 4y ago
      The part where when he was cited 8 years ago and told that the fine was $250/day for non compliance. It’s about 90k per year.
      - Clubber 4y ago
        You didn't justify it, you enumerated it. Explain why you believe fining someone $573,000 for having cars in their back yard working on them is reasonable and justifiable.
        salgernon 4y ago
        Because there was presumably no or minimal fine for violating this civil ordinance, should he have complied with mitigating the violation. There are then penalties for continuing the violation. So should the state have just given up? At what point? If there were a maximum, what would it be?

javajosh 4y ago

I would have used "dude" and not worried about it - HN is mostly dudes and from my experience female nerds could care less if you call them dudes (and may even get a little thrill out of it.)

sillysaurusx 4y ago
You wouldn’t date a dude unless you like dudes. The ones I’ve spoken with definitely don’t get a thrill out of that.
- javajosh 4y ago
  Not sure what you mean. Not talking about dating anyone, talking about addressing someone online as "dude". Where I grew up, in LA, "dude" is used by both men and women to address each other. And unless you yourself are harmed, or know someone who is harmed by this usage, I'd avoid taking speculative umbrage first because it's bad for your heart, and second because it's a huge waste of everyone's time.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    The fact that you feel it’s a waste of time is part of the problem, dude. I’m relating things that women have told me directly. It’s not speculative. It’s exhausting when you’re part of a group and constantly mislabeled. Being friends with a diverse range of people helps with this. Next time you feel it’s okay to refer to a woman as a dude, just remember that you wouldn’t date a dude unless you were into dudes. If you’d like to discuss further, I’d be willing, since it’s an important topic to me. But we have to keep it high quality and substantive.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - javajosh 4y ago

wanderingstan 4y ago

The city’s blog post about the case gives an idea of what the neighbors were experiencing; > neighbors complaining that [the yard] had become a harborage for rats.