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Better distract ourselves with the 'one day it will happen' rather than deal with what's on our doorstep now which we are causing and we can control, but won't.

Better distract ourselves with the 'one day it will happen' rather than deal with what's on our doorstep now which we are causing and we can control, but won't. https://explosm.net/comics/the-future#comic https://explosm.net/comics/the-future#comic

whimsicalism 4y ago
Maybe all existential risks are bad?
- apocalypstyx 4y ago
  Then the nature of the universe (so far as we understand it) is "bad".
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    True. This is a weird line of thought, but I'll bite. The universe it constantly trying to kill us all. It's entropy. Life is fundamentally fighting against that entropy to keep itself well, alive. So yes, in our "living thing" world view the whole universe is always trying to kill us (life) and we (life) are locked in a constant existential battle with entropy to stay alive. So to oversimplify it yes, we (life) are good and the universe is evil in this thought experiment.
    - NateEag 4y ago
      this reminds me vaguely of the "soul growth" concept, the idea that the universe is a place for beings to grow by means of struggle and trial. Shows up in Christian Orthodox theology, IIRC.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      There is no "fight" against entropy, there is just the evolution of a deterministic wavefunction over time.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        Aren't things like the poleo vaccine or penicillin that? We could let the universe do its will, or fight against it. The same could be said for ants building rafts to survive a flood. That seems like life fighting against entropy to survive to me.
        apocalypstyx 4y ago
        Entropy (like the house) always wins. (Unless we're wrong about physics.) If I remember correctly, life actually increases the rate of entropy. So, conceptually, the more life, the faster the universe approaches heat death.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        Thank you both for this. It turns my world view upside down, but that's good. I've been seeing it as the universe tearing us down this whole time. Really it's us tearing the universe down. Somehow this is much more comforting to me. Thank you!
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        Except that all of those things merely arise from the deterministic evolution of a wavefunction that is subject to the laws of thermodynamics. "inventing the polio vaccine" was just a set of deterministic interactions between atoms in Jonas Salk's brain. During that entire process, entropy only increased, the universe further unwinds itself.
        inkblotuniverse 4y ago
        That isn't usually a useful perspective for an agent to take.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        It is the perspective that is consistent with how we know reality to function, its usefulness or lack thereof doesn't play in.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  I literally cannot understand your though processes. Perhaps you can help me; which is is preferable to you 1. a lightly grazed knee 2. being left mangled and paralysed in a car crash
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Uhh 2? what is your point?
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      A grazed knee is bad, being mashed in a pileup is bad. There are degrees of badness, which seems something you have ignored when asking "Maybe all existential risks are bad?" Perhaps I misunderstood you?
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        Existential risk = extinction of humanity. I'm not sure how there are degrees of extinction of humanity that are bad.
        zasdffaa 4y ago
        I misunderstood you, apologies, point taken. But not agreed with. 'Asteroid sometime' != 'climate change happening now'. So degree is not in size but likelihood. Also climate change is independent of phat rock from space, it does not exclude it.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        I agree with you, but I don't think spending a small amount of resources on a less likely but still 1% in next 1000 years existential risk is a bad resource allocation or a "distraction"
        zasdffaa 4y ago
ncmncm 4y ago
Maybe a culture of interest in all of them could be conducive to acting to deal with all of them. The unfolding catastrophe of Global Climate Disruption is one among many existential threats. Addressing just any one is an insufficient response, but maybe addressing any adequately would unlock attention to the rest.

whimsicalism 4y ago

Maybe all existential risks are bad?

apocalypstyx 4y ago
Then the nature of the universe (so far as we understand it) is "bad".
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  True. This is a weird line of thought, but I'll bite. The universe it constantly trying to kill us all. It's entropy. Life is fundamentally fighting against that entropy to keep itself well, alive. So yes, in our "living thing" world view the whole universe is always trying to kill us (life) and we (life) are locked in a constant existential battle with entropy to stay alive. So to oversimplify it yes, we (life) are good and the universe is evil in this thought experiment.
  - NateEag 4y ago
    this reminds me vaguely of the "soul growth" concept, the idea that the universe is a place for beings to grow by means of struggle and trial. Shows up in Christian Orthodox theology, IIRC.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    There is no "fight" against entropy, there is just the evolution of a deterministic wavefunction over time.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Aren't things like the poleo vaccine or penicillin that? We could let the universe do its will, or fight against it. The same could be said for ants building rafts to survive a flood. That seems like life fighting against entropy to survive to me.
      - apocalypstyx 4y ago
        Entropy (like the house) always wins. (Unless we're wrong about physics.) If I remember correctly, life actually increases the rate of entropy. So, conceptually, the more life, the faster the universe approaches heat death.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        Thank you both for this. It turns my world view upside down, but that's good. I've been seeing it as the universe tearing us down this whole time. Really it's us tearing the universe down. Somehow this is much more comforting to me. Thank you!
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        Except that all of those things merely arise from the deterministic evolution of a wavefunction that is subject to the laws of thermodynamics. "inventing the polio vaccine" was just a set of deterministic interactions between atoms in Jonas Salk's brain. During that entire process, entropy only increased, the universe further unwinds itself.
        inkblotuniverse 4y ago
        That isn't usually a useful perspective for an agent to take.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        It is the perspective that is consistent with how we know reality to function, its usefulness or lack thereof doesn't play in.
zasdffaa 4y ago
I literally cannot understand your though processes. Perhaps you can help me; which is is preferable to you 1. a lightly grazed knee 2. being left mangled and paralysed in a car crash
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Uhh 2? what is your point?
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    A grazed knee is bad, being mashed in a pileup is bad. There are degrees of badness, which seems something you have ignored when asking "Maybe all existential risks are bad?" Perhaps I misunderstood you?
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      Existential risk = extinction of humanity. I'm not sure how there are degrees of extinction of humanity that are bad.
      - zasdffaa 4y ago
        I misunderstood you, apologies, point taken. But not agreed with. 'Asteroid sometime' != 'climate change happening now'. So degree is not in size but likelihood. Also climate change is independent of phat rock from space, it does not exclude it.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        I agree with you, but I don't think spending a small amount of resources on a less likely but still 1% in next 1000 years existential risk is a bad resource allocation or a "distraction"
        zasdffaa 4y ago

ncmncm 4y ago

Maybe a culture of interest in all of them could be conducive to acting to deal with all of them. The unfolding catastrophe of Global Climate Disruption is one among many existential threats. Addressing just any one is an insufficient response, but maybe addressing any adequately would unlock attention to the rest.