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I feel like the criticism towards Brave ITT is unjustified. This is a USPS service which is available to businesses. If you're a privacy conscious person in the

I feel like the criticism towards Brave ITT is unjustified. This is a USPS service which is available to businesses. If you're a privacy conscious person in the US, you've likely opted out of this list. Brave is reaching the people who may not have done this, to the end of getting regular folks to know their alternatives against big tech companies. I guess don't get the ire, or what the expectation is for them to grow. Would you rather them take out Google or Facebook ads? /s

morganvachon 4y ago
Here's the fun thing: I have opted out of blind mailers from the USPS, yet I got one of these Brave mailers last week with my name on it (I'm in the Atlanta area). Just one more reason of many for me to never, ever let Brave near any of my devices.
- dinkleberg 4y ago
  That sounds like an unhealthy paranoia. Which seems more likely? The USPS is delivering spam mail against the wishes of the recipient (I still get spam mail weekly despite opting out) or a privacy-focused company is snooping on your devices to steal your personal info (so they can send you mailers?).
  - morganvachon 4y ago
    > or a privacy-focused company is snooping on your devices to steal your personal info (so they can send you mailers?) I never said that. I don't want Brave on my devices due to their past bad behavior: lying, stealing money from creators in their affiliate program, redirecting legitimate links to shady crypto sites, running a crypto pyramid scheme, and so on. This is just the latest in a long list of reasons not to use their software.
    - jonathansampson 4y ago
      Brave doesn't harvest or collect any user data; we explicitly requested that no names be printed on these mailers (which was the case prior to this recent batch). You're mistaken about the other issues as well (they are every bit as overblown and misrepresented as this present issue). "Stealing money from creators" is quite misleading. When Brave held its token sale in 2017, we allocated 300M tokens to the User Growth Pool. Shortly thereafter we began staking Brave users with tokens to identify creators for whom they would like to offer support. Brave's UI showed a check-mark for verified creators, and nothing for unverified creators (we naively followed the Twitter model). Some users took the BAT they received from Brave, and attempted to tip it to unverified creators (which landed those tokens in an omnibus settlement wallet). The UI/UX caused a great deal of confusion towards the end of 2018, leading to monumental feedback from several content creators, including Tom Scott of YouTube. Tom's insights gave us the direction we needed to overhaul the Rewards (called 'Payments' at the time) system in major ways. Ultimately, Tom approved of the changes. But note, no money was ever stolen from any creator. Additional details are provided in our 2018 blog post at https://brave.com/rewards-update/ https://brave.com/rewards-update/. It was also never the case that Brave was "redirecting legitimate links to shady crypto sites," either. You're referring to our Partner and Affiliate Links in Suggested Sites. That is, if you typed "bitcoin" into the address bar, prior to any network activity, Brave could list (among other options) an affiliate link to binance.us. The user could then decide to visit the bitcoin-related property using Brave's affiliate link, or disregard the suggestion entirely. This feature is off by default in Brave today, but you can read more about it on our blog at https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/ https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/.
      - morganvachon 4y ago
        I appreciate the attempt to explain your company's bad behavior, but I'm not convinced. And to be fair, you're not alone in making mistakes in the arena of privacy and security; all the major browsers have privacy-averse settings and "anti-features". The difference with your company is that you falsely advertise yourself as the one true private browser, while simultaneously profiting from your users' personal data. It's a lie, it's a scam, and it's morally reprehensible. You only fixed the issues I brought up after being caught and publicly shamed over them; if you hadn't been caught out you'd likely still be doing those things today. Shame on you.
encryptluks2 4y ago
You can't opt out. After multiple calls and complaints to USPS and speaking to the Postmaster General I was given two options. Either I could STFU and keep getting them along with my other mail, or I could opt to not have any mail delivered anymore. And... People wonder why the USPS shouldn't be a bank.
- arthurcolle 4y ago
  That doesn't seem right. https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-stop-junk-mail https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-stop-junk-mail Which Postmaster General did you speak to again?
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    If you look at what posted that has nothing to do with USPS Direct Mail. I also can't tell you how bad of an idea it is to pay money and register with advertisers who are already sending you unsolicited mail. > Which Postmaster General did you speak to again? I filed a complaint here: https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint And got a call back around 2015.
bzxcvbn 4y ago
One of the foundations of privacy is that data sharing in any form should be opt-in, not opt-out.
- jonathansampson 4y ago
  This was not an example of data-sharing; the data in question (names and addresses) resides with the United States Postal Service. That data is never accessed or viewed by Brave.
  - bzxcvbn 4y ago
    Google never shares user data when it sells ad spaces, and this is still viewed as something you need to give consent for.

morganvachon 4y ago

Here's the fun thing: I have opted out of blind mailers from the USPS, yet I got one of these Brave mailers last week with my name on it (I'm in the Atlanta area). Just one more reason of many for me to never, ever let Brave near any of my devices.

dinkleberg 4y ago
That sounds like an unhealthy paranoia. Which seems more likely? The USPS is delivering spam mail against the wishes of the recipient (I still get spam mail weekly despite opting out) or a privacy-focused company is snooping on your devices to steal your personal info (so they can send you mailers?).
- morganvachon 4y ago
  > or a privacy-focused company is snooping on your devices to steal your personal info (so they can send you mailers?) I never said that. I don't want Brave on my devices due to their past bad behavior: lying, stealing money from creators in their affiliate program, redirecting legitimate links to shady crypto sites, running a crypto pyramid scheme, and so on. This is just the latest in a long list of reasons not to use their software.
  - jonathansampson 4y ago
    Brave doesn't harvest or collect any user data; we explicitly requested that no names be printed on these mailers (which was the case prior to this recent batch). You're mistaken about the other issues as well (they are every bit as overblown and misrepresented as this present issue). "Stealing money from creators" is quite misleading. When Brave held its token sale in 2017, we allocated 300M tokens to the User Growth Pool. Shortly thereafter we began staking Brave users with tokens to identify creators for whom they would like to offer support. Brave's UI showed a check-mark for verified creators, and nothing for unverified creators (we naively followed the Twitter model). Some users took the BAT they received from Brave, and attempted to tip it to unverified creators (which landed those tokens in an omnibus settlement wallet). The UI/UX caused a great deal of confusion towards the end of 2018, leading to monumental feedback from several content creators, including Tom Scott of YouTube. Tom's insights gave us the direction we needed to overhaul the Rewards (called 'Payments' at the time) system in major ways. Ultimately, Tom approved of the changes. But note, no money was ever stolen from any creator. Additional details are provided in our 2018 blog post at https://brave.com/rewards-update/ https://brave.com/rewards-update/. It was also never the case that Brave was "redirecting legitimate links to shady crypto sites," either. You're referring to our Partner and Affiliate Links in Suggested Sites. That is, if you typed "bitcoin" into the address bar, prior to any network activity, Brave could list (among other options) an affiliate link to binance.us. The user could then decide to visit the bitcoin-related property using Brave's affiliate link, or disregard the suggestion entirely. This feature is off by default in Brave today, but you can read more about it on our blog at https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/ https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/.
    - morganvachon 4y ago
      I appreciate the attempt to explain your company's bad behavior, but I'm not convinced. And to be fair, you're not alone in making mistakes in the arena of privacy and security; all the major browsers have privacy-averse settings and "anti-features". The difference with your company is that you falsely advertise yourself as the one true private browser, while simultaneously profiting from your users' personal data. It's a lie, it's a scam, and it's morally reprehensible. You only fixed the issues I brought up after being caught and publicly shamed over them; if you hadn't been caught out you'd likely still be doing those things today. Shame on you.

encryptluks2 4y ago

You can't opt out. After multiple calls and complaints to USPS and speaking to the Postmaster General I was given two options. Either I could STFU and keep getting them along with my other mail, or I could opt to not have any mail delivered anymore. And... People wonder why the USPS shouldn't be a bank.

arthurcolle 4y ago
That doesn't seem right. https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-stop-junk-mail https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-stop-junk-mail Which Postmaster General did you speak to again?
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  If you look at what posted that has nothing to do with USPS Direct Mail. I also can't tell you how bad of an idea it is to pay money and register with advertisers who are already sending you unsolicited mail. > Which Postmaster General did you speak to again? I filed a complaint here: https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint And got a call back around 2015.

bzxcvbn 4y ago

One of the foundations of privacy is that data sharing in any form should be opt-in, not opt-out.

jonathansampson 4y ago
This was not an example of data-sharing; the data in question (names and addresses) resides with the United States Postal Service. That data is never accessed or viewed by Brave.
- bzxcvbn 4y ago
  Google never shares user data when it sells ad spaces, and this is still viewed as something you need to give consent for.