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I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Don't tell me that states have claimed everything and everyone?! Must I accept the authority of government and rule

I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Don't tell me that states have claimed everything and everyone?! Must I accept the authority of government and rule by the worst of us? Why do you accept it? Cos you were born somewhere? Do I have the right to create a new country, and make you a citizen? If not, where does the government's right to do that come from?!? In fact, it has no right - all the pieces of paper they write, don't count! It is really an invention by tyrants, who want to you to think your voting is doing something. And you do!

epgui 4y ago
- verisimi 4y ago
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > Government is a form of slavery. > 'Democracy' is really 'representative democracy' - you vote for someone to represent you for 4-5 years. You’re comfortable with this overly broad definition of slavery, but have issues with calling a form of democracy “democracy”?
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - verisimi 4y ago
      I was expecting you to make a strawman attack - and you did anyway (teen). I prefer to engage with the topic. There are many ways to interpret what is going on in Russia. I've no idea what's really going on - I'm not there. I suspect its just theatrics, to make us all fearful, decrease the population, to gain even more power from the people. Russians believe their government is defending ethnic Russians who have been under attack by literal nazis since 2013. Who has the truth? CNN? I don't say I'm going to create my own country and defend it. All I say is government is slavery. You can justify paying taxes, that you love your country, whatever you like. You can say that sending weapons to Ukraine is fine. But this is because you believe what your government tells you - it is not 'free thinking'. Stockholm syndrome perhaps - you have come to love your captor. They do run the news you know. We actually live in a fascist (government + corporation) state. They don't give you truth, they tell you what is expedient for their aims. And they aim to control what you think. They may have you cheering for infringement of individual people's natural rights - so complete is the way they frame the world to most. My position is that I am forced to accept their immoral force. Unlike you, I'm not going to call government actions 'right' or 'moral'. I don't individually consent to any of it! (There is no such thing as collective consent - you and your friends cannot justly tell me what to do). The appearance of consent is due to the threat and actual use of force. > In the end, it turns out that a reasonably-well-governed country is the optimum of freedom, even though nobody is perfectly free. I know I'm a slave, but you are labouring under the illusion you are free. I'm not sugar-coated the turd - I leave that to others.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
philistine 4y ago
At its core, you're fervently asking for a world without irregularities, without flaws. A just world. Our world isn't this way. It is unjust. Where you're born is restrictive on your opportunities, plain and simple. The only way to free yourself from the yoke of the US (I presume you are American) is to renounce your citizenship. Which means you cannot enjoy all that comes with this privilege, like living there. Are you ready to do that? And if you're wondering whether you can make a nation: yes you can. Maintaining a nation, having a sole claim on territory, and having recognitions by your peers (other nations), that's the tough part. Again, if you wish to free yourself from american tyranny this way, you need to find another nation, already recognized by the US, willing to agree to your existence as a nation. Are you able to do that? Like I said, an unjust world.
- verisimi 4y ago
  Does government make justice better or worse? I think most people are fair minded. The state is a tyrant though. What does it say about us, if are so accepting and defensive of it? How much money is it ok to forcibly take (tax)? If any is forcibly taken, are you enslaved? The are individual options are poor. But I'm not going to say the tyranny is 'good', 'right', 'acceptable'.
  - philistine 4y ago
    Wow. Chill out, it's just taxes.
HWR_14 4y ago
> I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Somalia is the standard answer. Or get on a boat and live at sea.
runnerup 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand Just come with a very small, relatively affordable temporary mercenary force.

epgui 4y ago

verisimi 4y ago
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > Government is a form of slavery. > 'Democracy' is really 'representative democracy' - you vote for someone to represent you for 4-5 years. You’re comfortable with this overly broad definition of slavery, but have issues with calling a form of democracy “democracy”?
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - verisimi 4y ago
    I was expecting you to make a strawman attack - and you did anyway (teen). I prefer to engage with the topic. There are many ways to interpret what is going on in Russia. I've no idea what's really going on - I'm not there. I suspect its just theatrics, to make us all fearful, decrease the population, to gain even more power from the people. Russians believe their government is defending ethnic Russians who have been under attack by literal nazis since 2013. Who has the truth? CNN? I don't say I'm going to create my own country and defend it. All I say is government is slavery. You can justify paying taxes, that you love your country, whatever you like. You can say that sending weapons to Ukraine is fine. But this is because you believe what your government tells you - it is not 'free thinking'. Stockholm syndrome perhaps - you have come to love your captor. They do run the news you know. We actually live in a fascist (government + corporation) state. They don't give you truth, they tell you what is expedient for their aims. And they aim to control what you think. They may have you cheering for infringement of individual people's natural rights - so complete is the way they frame the world to most. My position is that I am forced to accept their immoral force. Unlike you, I'm not going to call government actions 'right' or 'moral'. I don't individually consent to any of it! (There is no such thing as collective consent - you and your friends cannot justly tell me what to do). The appearance of consent is due to the threat and actual use of force. > In the end, it turns out that a reasonably-well-governed country is the optimum of freedom, even though nobody is perfectly free. I know I'm a slave, but you are labouring under the illusion you are free. I'm not sugar-coated the turd - I leave that to others.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

philistine 4y ago

At its core, you're fervently asking for a world without irregularities, without flaws. A just world. Our world isn't this way. It is unjust. Where you're born is restrictive on your opportunities, plain and simple. The only way to free yourself from the yoke of the US (I presume you are American) is to renounce your citizenship. Which means you cannot enjoy all that comes with this privilege, like living there. Are you ready to do that? And if you're wondering whether you can make a nation: yes you can. Maintaining a nation, having a sole claim on territory, and having recognitions by your peers (other nations), that's the tough part. Again, if you wish to free yourself from american tyranny this way, you need to find another nation, already recognized by the US, willing to agree to your existence as a nation. Are you able to do that? Like I said, an unjust world.

verisimi 4y ago
Does government make justice better or worse? I think most people are fair minded. The state is a tyrant though. What does it say about us, if are so accepting and defensive of it? How much money is it ok to forcibly take (tax)? If any is forcibly taken, are you enslaved? The are individual options are poor. But I'm not going to say the tyranny is 'good', 'right', 'acceptable'.
- philistine 4y ago
  Wow. Chill out, it's just taxes.

HWR_14 4y ago

> I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Somalia is the standard answer. Or get on a boat and live at sea.

runnerup 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand Just come with a very small, relatively affordable temporary mercenary force.