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Of course, these Russian minority casualties died as collateral from Russia and Russian backed separatists as well as from Ukraine. And more saliently, Russia i

Of course, these Russian minority casualties died as collateral from Russia and Russian backed separatists as well as from Ukraine. And more saliently, Russia is the aggressor so none of those people would have died if they hadn’t put Ukraine into an existential position.

thriftwy 4y ago
But the same reasoning works for Assad: all of his victims are collateral from fighting Western-supported rebels as well as ISIS. He has every right to say that the West (and a bit of Turkey) are aggressors and he is defending his country by bombing cities in it.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  Nonsense. Assad deliberately used chemical and kinetic weapons on civilians, moreover neither the US nor other western countries are using this as a pretext for annexing Syria. There is no analogue.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    Ukraine deliberately shelled civians for 8 years, so what? Their routine tactics of dealing with rebels is to bomb civians dear to those rebels. When they don't hope to make territorial gains, they wish to inflict some damage and civian targets are way easier to hit. This week, they're using freshly supplied M777 to bomb areas of Donetsk they could not reach previously. Such as by hitting four schools in a single day. How is this principially different from Assad?
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    > Assad deliberately used chemical and kinetic weapons on civilians So did NATO in 1999 bombing of yugoslavia. https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/08/balkans https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/08/balkans <- cluster bombing a (farmers) market https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/24/balkans3 https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/24/balkans3 <- tv station, "Serb TV station was legitimate target, says Blair" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing <- civilian train and bridge (and having to speed up the video, to make it seem non-intentional) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48134881 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48134881 <- even a chinese embassy http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/07/nato.attack.01/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/07/nato.attack.01/i... <- "school, a monastery and other civilian facilities" http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/14/refugees.02/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/14/refugees.02/inde... <- albanian refugees http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9905/01/kosovo.military.02/ http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9905/01/kosovo.military.... <- bus etc.
    - ls15 4y ago
      I am sorry, people in Syria. We can't condemn the use of heavy weapons against civilians, because... checking notes... NATO members used heavy weapons against civilians in 1999.

thriftwy 4y ago

But the same reasoning works for Assad: all of his victims are collateral from fighting Western-supported rebels as well as ISIS. He has every right to say that the West (and a bit of Turkey) are aggressors and he is defending his country by bombing cities in it.

throwaway894345 4y ago
Nonsense. Assad deliberately used chemical and kinetic weapons on civilians, moreover neither the US nor other western countries are using this as a pretext for annexing Syria. There is no analogue.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  Ukraine deliberately shelled civians for 8 years, so what? Their routine tactics of dealing with rebels is to bomb civians dear to those rebels. When they don't hope to make territorial gains, they wish to inflict some damage and civian targets are way easier to hit. This week, they're using freshly supplied M777 to bomb areas of Donetsk they could not reach previously. Such as by hitting four schools in a single day. How is this principially different from Assad?
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > Assad deliberately used chemical and kinetic weapons on civilians So did NATO in 1999 bombing of yugoslavia. https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/08/balkans https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/08/balkans <- cluster bombing a (farmers) market https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/24/balkans3 https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/24/balkans3 <- tv station, "Serb TV station was legitimate target, says Blair" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing <- civilian train and bridge (and having to speed up the video, to make it seem non-intentional) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48134881 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48134881 <- even a chinese embassy http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/07/nato.attack.01/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/07/nato.attack.01/i... <- "school, a monastery and other civilian facilities" http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/14/refugees.02/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/14/refugees.02/inde... <- albanian refugees http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9905/01/kosovo.military.02/ http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9905/01/kosovo.military.... <- bus etc.
  - ls15 4y ago
    I am sorry, people in Syria. We can't condemn the use of heavy weapons against civilians, because... checking notes... NATO members used heavy weapons against civilians in 1999.