3 ms·

i get ptsd reading about this and would rather die than having a gmbh again even though i had a holding ug from the start. what also no one tells you is that to

i get ptsd reading about this and would rather die than having a gmbh again even though i had a holding ug from the start. what also no one tells you is that to get rid of these companies if it does not work out takes one to 2 years and costs a few thousand euros and many nerves you likely don't have anymore at that point. if i start again i am moving to estonia and start a OÜ.

hef19898 4y ago
As stated in another commebt, you can merge a GmbH with yourself. Sure, it costs money but is quite simple, fast and straight forward. I have no idea why start-up entrepreneurs fail at stuff your Döner shop or local garage succeed. Or tire change shop is part of a small local chain, every site is it's own GmbH. Just saying...
- cameronh90 4y ago
  Shops have assets, small startups often don't. That makes the thousands of euros you need for reserves kinda pointless.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Ok, my one person start up had assets: My laptop, office gear, etc... Now imagine you have an office to pay. Or you are multiple people. Or you need some fancy hardware. All of that can be assets owned by the corp. And the exoebses, software etc..., can be paid of those 12.5/25 k as well. This discussion proofs one point so, a GmbH shows that someone is serious about it.
    - cameronh90 4y ago
      Yeah but in the modern world you often don't have any of that except a laptop or two, and even they are often personal devices in a small start-up. I founded a start-up with a friend and we had zero assets - just Office 365, AWS, managed office and personal devices.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        But you do see why, geneally speaking, incorporating a business is necessary and required, do you? Because otherwise this discussion is kind of pointless.
        cameronh90 4y ago
        Of course, but not why it needs 25k in reserves/assets. In many other countries it's very cheap and simple. In the UK where we did it, it took half an hour, we did it online in an hour and we needed about £20 all-in to get incorporated and set up a business bank account.
        hef19898 4y ago
        As it was pointed out multiple times, 25k are not needed in capital.
        cameronh90 4y ago
        Or assets, or equipment or whatever. You need quite a bit of money to put into it that you won't necessarily get back if it fails. The point is, whether it's 25k or 12.5k, and whether it's reserves or founding capital, share capital, equipments, assets, savings or whatever else, or whether it's 1 EUR as in the case of a UG but you have to save 25% of profits until you hit 25k - it's all still a significant barrier to forming an LLC that other countries have proven is unnecessary. That, along with paperwork, high costs, notary requirements, slow timescales and a time consuming dissolution process. There are a bunch of other countries within the EU that make the process much quicker, simpler and cheaper, so it's hard to see what reason one would have to bother with the German system.
        hef19898 4y ago
        To answer your last question: Everyone that lives in Gwemany and cannot afford to move to another country. For all the other reasons, you'd have to ask the Berlin start-up scene.
- jFriedensreich 4y ago
  that is only possible if no other shareholder exists even in tiny minority amounts otherwise you need to buy back all shares according to book value even if the company is practically worthless to you, also dont forget transfer of shares in germany requires notariat with in person paperwork and fees, etc. in addition you transfer all liabilities back to you as natural person that might exist, which defeats kind of the reason for having a limited in the first place. so this is not an option in virtually any normal failed startup cases.

hef19898 4y ago

As stated in another commebt, you can merge a GmbH with yourself. Sure, it costs money but is quite simple, fast and straight forward. I have no idea why start-up entrepreneurs fail at stuff your Döner shop or local garage succeed. Or tire change shop is part of a small local chain, every site is it's own GmbH. Just saying...

cameronh90 4y ago
Shops have assets, small startups often don't. That makes the thousands of euros you need for reserves kinda pointless.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Ok, my one person start up had assets: My laptop, office gear, etc... Now imagine you have an office to pay. Or you are multiple people. Or you need some fancy hardware. All of that can be assets owned by the corp. And the exoebses, software etc..., can be paid of those 12.5/25 k as well. This discussion proofs one point so, a GmbH shows that someone is serious about it.
  - cameronh90 4y ago
    Yeah but in the modern world you often don't have any of that except a laptop or two, and even they are often personal devices in a small start-up. I founded a start-up with a friend and we had zero assets - just Office 365, AWS, managed office and personal devices.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      But you do see why, geneally speaking, incorporating a business is necessary and required, do you? Because otherwise this discussion is kind of pointless.
      - cameronh90 4y ago
        Of course, but not why it needs 25k in reserves/assets. In many other countries it's very cheap and simple. In the UK where we did it, it took half an hour, we did it online in an hour and we needed about £20 all-in to get incorporated and set up a business bank account.
        hef19898 4y ago
        As it was pointed out multiple times, 25k are not needed in capital.
        cameronh90 4y ago
        Or assets, or equipment or whatever. You need quite a bit of money to put into it that you won't necessarily get back if it fails. The point is, whether it's 25k or 12.5k, and whether it's reserves or founding capital, share capital, equipments, assets, savings or whatever else, or whether it's 1 EUR as in the case of a UG but you have to save 25% of profits until you hit 25k - it's all still a significant barrier to forming an LLC that other countries have proven is unnecessary. That, along with paperwork, high costs, notary requirements, slow timescales and a time consuming dissolution process. There are a bunch of other countries within the EU that make the process much quicker, simpler and cheaper, so it's hard to see what reason one would have to bother with the German system.
        hef19898 4y ago
        To answer your last question: Everyone that lives in Gwemany and cannot afford to move to another country. For all the other reasons, you'd have to ask the Berlin start-up scene.
jFriedensreich 4y ago
that is only possible if no other shareholder exists even in tiny minority amounts otherwise you need to buy back all shares according to book value even if the company is practically worthless to you, also dont forget transfer of shares in germany requires notariat with in person paperwork and fees, etc. in addition you transfer all liabilities back to you as natural person that might exist, which defeats kind of the reason for having a limited in the first place. so this is not an option in virtually any normal failed startup cases.